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View Full Version : Rotation for the back end of our Rotation



dkamberi25
01-04-2013, 01:36 PM
With Chapman making his switch to starting this season and no doubt under some sort of an innings count, it got me thinking of a way to manage our last two spots between Arroyo, Leake and Chapman. My thought is to rotate them so a different set of two are the 4th and 5th starters for any given time. This would give each guy 2 starts in 3 oppertunities. So if we are blessed with a year like last where the pitchers stayed healthy each guy would get two thirds of the possible starts. This should keep Chapman within a innings limit while keeping him active the whole season avoiding a Strasburg type end of year shutdown. It also keeps Leake active and getting meaningful starts along with Arroyo. This way if Arroyo is let go once his contract runs out we will know difinitavley if Champman and Leake can be starters moving forward.

bounty37h
01-04-2013, 02:28 PM
I have wondered about something like this, but think Arroyo said he prefers less days between starts, not more?

UPRedsFan
01-04-2013, 10:29 PM
I think Leake is better when he doesn't have too much rest as well. Arroyo and Leake both rely so much on control, it probably would hurt them to have a 9 day layoff after every 2 starts.

Tuff Nut
01-05-2013, 01:25 AM
Take the 5 best and run with them.Don't hemhaw around with it. If Leake starts out in the pen, doesn't mean he won't get a spot start here or there......barring injury. i don't mind the skipped start here or there. Hell, a little rest never hurt no one.

Sir Luke
01-15-2013, 10:40 AM
1. Cueto
2. Latos
3. Arroyo
4. Bailey
5. Chapman

Arroyo breaks up the similar styles of Latos and Bailey and puts Chapman in the five slot where he belongs in order to limit innings. No, Leake doesn't belong in there. Not now at least.

Captain13
01-15-2013, 10:54 AM
I like the idea of Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey and Leake until the All-Star break and then adding Chapman. Of course if there are injuries before then, everything is subject to change.

This way Chapman is available in the playoffs.

DirtyBaker
01-15-2013, 12:45 PM
Leake is the odd man out, but my money is on him starting plenty of game as a 6th starter. Not a chance our rotation remains as healthy as it did in 2012.

PedroBourbon
01-16-2013, 05:06 PM
With Chapman making his switch to starting this season and no doubt under some sort of an innings count


I'm sure he will. If we are lucky enough to be in the hunt after the all star break (I think we will but don't wanna be cocky) Chapman should skip some starts or just go to the pen so we have him late in the year.

This is what Washington should have done with Strausburg and why some of the Nats fans are still going "what if" over it.

LeDoux
01-16-2013, 05:16 PM
With Chapman making his switch to starting this season and no doubt under some sort of an innings count, it got me thinking of a way to manage our last two spots between Arroyo, Leake and Chapman. My thought is to rotate them so a different set of two are the 4th and 5th starters for any given time. This would give each guy 2 starts in 3 oppertunities. So if we are blessed with a year like last where the pitchers stayed healthy each guy would get two thirds of the possible starts. This should keep Chapman within a innings limit while keeping him active the whole season avoiding a Strasburg type end of year shutdown. It also keeps Leake active and getting meaningful starts along with Arroyo. This way if Arroyo is let go once his contract runs out we will know difinitavley if Champman and Leake can be starters moving forward.

If Dusty Baker were to implement something like this I think my head would explode. The universe would no longer make sense to me.

m21eagle45
01-17-2013, 12:22 AM
I like the idea of Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey and Leake until the All-Star break and then adding Chapman. Of course if there are injuries before then, everything is subject to change.

This way Chapman is available in the playoffs.

It is much harder for a player to become a starter midseason than it is if they become a starter at the beginning of the season. If we are going to make a guy a starter in the middle of the year I would prefer it not be Chapman.

SWIndRed
01-17-2013, 01:50 PM
May not be "by the book" and it may not be the best way to utilize your overall bullpen, but can we not make Chapman/Leake "co-starters" on that 5th day?

Chapman goes the first 3 or 4 innings followed by Leake for 3 or 4. Each would know what day they are throwing and can prepare as a starter. Leake knows pretty well when to warm-up.

Leake could even hit for Chapman if it worked out that way on Chapman's 2nd AB of the game.

The drawback is of course that probably nullifies Leake being used as a "long man" between his "starts" and that puts you one short in the pen unless you keep an extra pitcher.

bigfunguy
01-17-2013, 02:38 PM
I've wondered if Arroyo might ask for and get a trade...back to Boston??

coachpipe
01-23-2013, 02:02 PM
Im still hoping that Jockety smartens up and keeps chapman in the pen. He will effect ALOT more games as a closer than he would as a starter. Not to mention he keeps Butts in seats all the way until the 9th inning. It seems to me all the baseball players would rather keep him in the pen and its the fans and front office who want to move him.
If they do move him to starter I hope its towards the end of the season so he doesnt throw too many innings and hurt his arm or get shut down. And him only having 1 reliable pitch doesnt help the situation either

bah1286
01-23-2013, 04:30 PM
Im still hoping that Jockety smartens up and keeps chapman in the pen. He will effect ALOT more games as a closer than he would as a starter. Not to mention he keeps Butts in seats all the way until the 9th inning. It seems to me all the baseball players would rather keep him in the pen and its the fans and front office who want to move him.


So would you rather have a lights out closer (which is what Chapman is) than an lights out starter (what Chapman could be)?

I will take a Verlander over a Kimbrel every day.

coachpipe
01-23-2013, 04:50 PM
I dont think the transition is going to be as what most think it will. He isnt going to be a verlander atleast not anytime soon. He has 1 pitch he can control for a strike. He throws a fastball...That is it. He pitched 70 innings last season and fatigued.. As the season went on his speed dropped from 98 ish to a consistent 94-95. Add on more innings and that 95 will continue to go down. Major League Baseball players can hit. After the first time or 2 through the lineup that fastball is going to be alot easier to drive

I just havent heard many if any baseball guys (affiliated with MLB) say this is a good move. Everyone is saying keep him in the Pen where he belongs

LaFlamaBlanca
01-23-2013, 06:00 PM
Im still hoping that Jockety smartens up and keeps chapman in the pen. He will effect ALOT more games as a closer than he would as a starter. Not to mention he keeps Butts in seats all the way until the 9th inning. It seems to me all the baseball players would rather keep him in the pen and its the fans and front office who want to move him.
If they do move him to starter I hope its towards the end of the season so he doesnt throw too many innings and hurt his arm or get shut down. And him only having 1 reliable pitch doesnt help the situation either

How could he "effect" so much more when Mike Leake pitched 100 more innings than Aroldis last year? Having your best players on the field as much as possible is fairly obvious, even if he technically appears in less games. A TOR start is much more valuable than a great closer.

coachpipe
01-23-2013, 06:21 PM
we can agree to disagree, I just dont see him turning into what everyone THINKS he is going to turn into. And Id say chapman effected a lot more games last year (in a positive role) than leake did. He isnt going to win 20+ games as a starter. Consistently, that is hard to come by. But to get 40+ saves is easily possible. So that is 20 games(no way he wins 20 but just for ****s and giggles) where he could have a positive impact vs 40+.

And you are still forgetting how hard it is to transition into a MLB starter. Hes never been an MLB starter. He was a starter in Cuba and lets be honest about the talent in Cuba. Granted they do have some good players, but as a whole its like low A ball. Remember how easily he fatigued last year? His arm isnt going to miraculously be able to account for the added workload without any side effects. 70 innings..thats all he could do without getting fatigued.

Im just saying everyone (as in the fans not the players who all have come out publicly saying hes better fit for the bullpen) is looking at this move as hes going to be the next Randy Johnson when in fact if we are trying to make it to the WS this year, maybe a move like this should be SLOWLY made over the course of a few seasons and not all at once.

Girevik
01-24-2013, 11:22 AM
There's a reason starters make more money than closers, and garner way more in trades. Without question, a top notch starter is worth more than a top closer.

Remember, in spring training last year Chapman was not only the best SP in the Reds camp, but many down there said he was they best they saw in all of AZ. And it's not like this is a one way street. If it doesn't work out he can always go back to the pen. I think it's absoloutely worth the risk to see what kind of starter he can be.

alwaysawarrior
01-24-2013, 12:26 PM
The only reason I hate Chapman becoming a starter is the fact that it has taken so long. We shouldn't have to be worrying about inning limits this year because he should have stayed a starter all along. An adequate closer is much easier to find than a valuable starter. Is there a risk that goes along with him becoming a starter? Sure there is, again its much easier to be a closer than a starter. I think you have to try him in that role. The only question to me is how much and in what ways do they handle his innings limit....

HatchMo
01-24-2013, 01:11 PM
we can agree to disagree, I just dont see him turning into what everyone THINKS he is going to turn into. And Id say chapman effected a lot more games last year (in a positive role) than leake did. He isnt going to win 20+ games as a starter. Consistently, that is hard to come by. But to get 40+ saves is easily possible. So that is 20 games(no way he wins 20 but just for ****s and giggles) where he could have a positive impact vs 40+.

And you are still forgetting how hard it is to transition into a MLB starter. Hes never been an MLB starter. He was a starter in Cuba and lets be honest about the talent in Cuba. Granted they do have some good players, but as a whole its like low A ball. Remember how easily he fatigued last year? His arm isnt going to miraculously be able to account for the added workload without any side effects. 70 innings..thats all he could do without getting fatigued.

Im just saying everyone (as in the fans not the players who all have come out publicly saying hes better fit for the bullpen) is looking at this move as hes going to be the next Randy Johnson when in fact if we are trying to make it to the WS this year, maybe a move like this should be SLOWLY made over the course of a few seasons and not all at once.

Your logic throws out Broxton, if he closes 38/43 like chapman did last year and chap wins 10 games with a 4 era then they are better off than they were last year.