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Captain13
01-09-2013, 03:02 PM
Nobody.

Before we even talk about the steroid guys I believe Biggio and Raines have to be Hall of Famers, and I don't really have a problem adding Jack Morris. But Nobody. Really, nobody?!?

Spider Tre
01-09-2013, 03:53 PM
i heard Aaron Sele got a vote

TSJ55
01-09-2013, 04:48 PM
Weak sauce in my book. If you've got the numbers, you should be in. Cooperstown is there to document the history of baseball and Bonds/Clemens (minimal) are a huge part of that history regardless of whether or not they were dirty. What's the plan? Let the BBWA stick our heads in the sand and pretend those years don't exist?

Anyone who cares enough to visit the HOF knows the score anyway. Why not let them make up their own mind?

dubc47834
01-10-2013, 12:20 PM
My thought is if you're talking about the HOF and you're asked if someone is worthy or not, and you have to think about it, then no they aren't. Biggio yes, Tim Raines no.

Captain13
01-10-2013, 03:10 PM
My thought is if you're talking about the HOF and you're asked if someone is worthy or not, and you have to think about it, then no they aren't. Biggio yes, Tim Raines no.

See I don't have to think about Raines. One of the top 3 leadoff hitters of all-time (Henderson and Biggio being the other two). Good defensively, great on the bases, he was hurt by being an Expo for so long. Tim was clearly a great star; unfortunately for him, he was outshined by Ricky for the vast majority of his career.

dubc47834
01-10-2013, 03:23 PM
See I don't have to think about Raines. One of the top 3 leadoff hitters of all-time (Henderson and Biggio being the other two). Good defensively, great on the bases, he was hurt by being an Expo for so long. Tim was clearly a great star; unfortunately for him, he was outshined by Ricky for the vast majority of his career.

Like most of these guys I guess it's who you ask...to me I wouldn't vote for him. Great player and all, but like you said, probly was overshadowed by Henderson.

New York Red
01-10-2013, 05:04 PM
Nobody.

Before we even talk about the steroid guys I believe Biggio and Raines have to be Hall of Famers, and I don't really have a problem adding Jack Morris. But Nobody. Really, nobody?!?
Are we sure Biggio was clean? He got noticeably bigger throughout his career. Honestly, do we really know anyone was clean?

New York Red
01-10-2013, 05:09 PM
See I don't have to think about Raines. One of the top 3 leadoff hitters of all-time (Henderson and Biggio being the other two). Good defensively, great on the bases, he was hurt by being an Expo for so long. Tim was clearly a great star; unfortunately for him, he was outshined by Ricky for the vast majority of his career.
No way Biggio is a top three leadoff hitter all-time. That means you'd put him ahead of guys like Lou Brock and Ichiro?

And what about Pete Rose? He was a decent leadoff hitter, no? :confused:

scott91575
01-10-2013, 06:46 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Rb3iX.jpg

Captain13
01-11-2013, 09:35 AM
No way Biggio is a top three leadoff hitter all-time. That means you'd put him ahead of guys like Lou Brock and Ichiro?

And what about Pete Rose? He was a decent leadoff hitter, no? :confused:

I forget about Ichiro (just don't really like the guy) and he is pretty good. I'll take Biggio over Brock any day (Brock led the league seven times in caught stealing and his SB% isn't that great). Rose is actually the second best leadoff hitter of all-time behind Ricky.

Back to my point, Raines was the second best of his era (Rose's best years were behind him), and to say the fact that Ricky overshadowed him should prevent him from being in the HOF is like saying that since Clemens overshadowed Pedro and Maddox that they shouldn't be in. Not being the very best at your position doesn't mean your not a Hall of Famer; Thurmon Munson is a HOFer (Bench was better), Duke Snider is a HOFer and he was the third best CF in his city for much of his career. This is all my opinion, of course, and unless a lot of writers change their minds I will ultimately be wrong because Rock doesn't appear to be a likely HOFer. He will join Concepcion as two of the more egregious snubs.