Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
The golden sombrero thing isn't a Marty specific award.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_sombrero
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"The term was coined by San Diego Padre Carmelo Martinez in the 1980s.[citation needed] and first appeared in print when Leon Durham was quoted as using it in 1984.[5] The term "Horn" for a six-strikeout game was coined by Orioles pitcher Mike Flanagan in the immediate aftermath of Horn's game.[6]"
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
TSJ, you're arguing a relatively unpopular argument, but you've come as close to articulating the merits of this particular argument as I've seen. A few points you make raised my eyebrows a little bit.
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Originally Posted by
TSJ55
Whatever you gotta do to get the run in. That's all I ask. Check your ego and don't be selfish.
First off, how can one be selfish or not selfish in regards to trying to get a run home from 3rd(or advance a runner?)
From your other points, it seems taking a pitch that you could actually drive to the outfield would qualify as "selfish" but what batter takes pitches that he believes he'll be able to drive the ball to the outfield with? While it's important to not misstate a player's intentions when he says he's trying to drive in runs, you shouldn't misstate a player's intentions when he takes a pitch.
From Votto to Izturis, if a player thinks he has a pitch he can drive, he's swinging. All day every day. I really think the hitters mindset going to the plate actually is not concerned with the strike zone. It's "can I drive this pitch or not." The more disciplined hitters just happen to "think" they can drive more pitches in the zone than out.
If it's a pitch he thinks he can drive, he'll likely swing, even if the pitch will be a ball. If it's a pitch he doesn't think he can drive, he'll likely take, even if it's a strike. (Admittedly the algebra probably changes a bit on a 3-0 count or with 2 strikes.)
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The days of "pitching, a little defense, and the 3 run homer" are a lot fewer and far between than they once were[/B].
When did these days exist? Generally eras with a lot of homers involve almost no pitching, and eras with great pitching have much fewer home runs.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
TSJ, you're arguing a relatively unpopular argument, but you've come as close to articulating the merits of this particular argument as I've seen. A few points you make raised my eyebrows a little bit.
Thanks, I'm trying to learn something here as much as anything. As a former player (not terribly long ago) I admittedly struggle with a lot of new metrics. All I know is my approach to the game and what I was taught. Many times I think it's a given when it's obviously not.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
First off, how can one be selfish or not selfish in regards to trying to get a run home from 3rd(or advance a runner?)
From your other points, it seems taking a pitch that you could actually drive to the outfield would qualify as "selfish" but what batter takes pitches that he believes he'll be able to drive the ball to the outfield with?
"Selfish" may have been a poor choice but my point is that sac flys aren't very sexy. Chicks don't dig them but true team players shouldn't care. Just get the run in. If you have to give yourself up, so be it.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
From Votto to Izturis, if a player thinks he has a pitch he can drive, he's swinging. All day every day. I really think the hitters mindset going to the plate actually is not concerned with the strike zone. It's "can I drive this pitch or not." The more disciplined hitters just happen to "think" they can drive more pitches in the zone than out.
Truth. If it's a pitch he can drive, do it. ALWAYS. If the first pitch he sees though is one he can lift to right and score the run on sac fly, do that. Don't wait.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
If it's a pitch he thinks he can drive, he'll likely swing, even if the pitch will be a ball. If it's a pitch he doesn't think he can drive, he'll likely take, even if it's a strike. (Admittedly the algebra probably changes a bit on a 3-0 count or with 2 strikes.)
Like I said above, I would never argue with a hitter who said "I thought I could hit that pitch hard. I though I could drive it in the gap". With a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out though, even if it is a ball (especially high in zone) if the hitter thinks he can lift it to outfield and score the run, do it. Don't wait.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
When did these days exist? Generally eras with a lot of homers involve almost no pitching, and eras with great pitching have much fewer home runs.
15-18 years ago when guys were setting HR records by the bakers dozen.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
Most players suck when the ball is outside of the strikezone. Even if they think they can do something with it (like a Brandon Phillips, who expands the zone more than anyone on the team), they probably can't.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
Pick a good one and whack it.
Swinging at pitches outside your zone makes Teddie Ballgame cry.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
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Originally Posted by
Raisor
Pick a good one and whack it.
Swinging at pitches outside your zone makes Teddie Ballgame cry.
Makes Vlad Guerrero smile... because he's an outlier.
Don't be an outlier on purpose
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
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Originally Posted by
Raisor
Pick a good one and whack it.
Swinging at pitches outside your zone makes Teddie Ballgame cry.
I can agree with that but I also think "a good one" can change from situation to situation as does "your zone".
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TSJ55
"Selfish" may have been a poor choice but my point is that sac flys aren't very sexy. Chicks don't dig them but true team players shouldn't care. Just get the run in. If you have to give yourself up, so be it.
I'd be very surprised to find a player who wouldn't willingly do this in every opportunity. The problem is that it's really hard for a player to do and has a lot more to do with luck than you might imagine.
As other's have pointed out, a sac fly is much different than a sac bunt because a sacrifice fly is essentially what the player is TRYING to accomplish whether there's no one on or the bases are loaded. Hit the ball to the outfield, let the chips fall where they may.
Seriously, imagine a hitter who put the ball in the outfield every single time he came to the plate. He'd be the greatest hitter of all time.
As a former player, you can surely recognize that going to the plate trying to accomplish something like "hit a sac fly" would be a lesson in failure.
Heck even saying, hit the ball to the outfield is probably overcomplicating it.
How about, "find a pitch I can drive, and put a good swing on it." If you do that every time, you'll probably strike out a bit, you'll probably get more than your share of base hits, and you'll probably hit a sac fly or two every season.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
Marty is great at play-by-play but when he starts offering his opinions he sounds like a simpleton -- a grumpy simpleton.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
As other's have pointed out, a sac fly is much different than a sac bunt because a sacrifice fly is essentially what the player is TRYING to accomplish whether there's no one on or the bases are loaded. Hit the ball to the outfield, let the chips fall where they may.
I don't understand this. Power guys are trying to hit home runs. Line drive guys are trying to hit line drives and slap hitting guys are just punching the ball wherever they can. I don't know of any hitter who's aim is to loft a ball into the outfield where somebody can run under it.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
Seriously, imagine a hitter who put the ball in the outfield every single time he came to the plate. He'd be the greatest hitter of all time.
I think he would fly out all the time.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
As a former player, you can surely recognize that going to the plate trying to accomplish something like "hit a sac fly" would be a lesson in failure.
Going to the plate looking specifically to "hit a sac fly" would be shooting yourself in the foot like we've already discussed. You may miss a pitch that you can actually hit more sharply with that approach. But, recognizing a pitch that will allow to you to get the runner in via sac fly and taking advantage of that is different.
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Originally Posted by
Hoosier Red
How about, "find a pitch I can drive, and put a good swing on it." If you do that every time, you'll probably strike out a bit, you'll probably get more than your share of base hits, and you'll probably hit a sac fly or two every season.
You don't always get a pitch to drive in high level baseball. Especially in scoring situations. Not having to completely square it up and still get the run in is what I'm preaching.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
It's interesting to ponder how few of the players on woy's list Marty would have encountered during those seasons. Most of the AL players had their magical seasons prior to interleague play. Most of the NL players had their magical seasons before Marty worked for the Reds.
IOW, Marty's had almost no opportunity to gaze upon his version of baseball perfection.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
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Originally Posted by
westofyou
Makes Vlad Guerrero smile... because he's an outlier.
Don't be an outlier on purpose
Those aren't out of Vlad's zone
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
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Originally Posted by
AtomicDumpling
Marty is great at play-by-play but when he starts offering his opinions he sounds like a simpleton -- a grumpy simpleton.
Great voice, great feel for the game too
He just should hold back on trying to be analyst. In spite of that, I love Marty as an announcer still, I'm going to miss him when he's gone, and I feel like most Reds fans take him completely for granted.
If you don't like Marty, just wait until you see who they'll end up replacing him with one day.
Re: Things Marty Loves to Complain about
When the Reds get on a losing jag like this, the Brennamen become unlistenable. I've got the Extra Innings package, so for the next few days I'll be tuning in to Kuiper and Krukow, no contest. Those guys are quality.