O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/9605888.htm?1c

Looks like the end of an era has been reached. Sad day in Reds history.

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Reds to bench Larkin for rest of season

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Daily News Wire Services
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Barry Larkin's name won't be found in Cincinnati's starting lineup for the rest of the season and the Reds' captain is disappointed and hurt by the news.

And, the 40-year-old Larkin said he believes it is the team's way of showing him the clubhouse door.

Larkin was summoned to general manager Dan O'Brien's suite at the team hotel in Houston yesterday morning and was told his starting services were no longer required.

Larkin revealed the news before last night's 9-7 loss to the Astros. He said he had expected to play the rest of the season.

Larkin is hitting .300 for his 327 at-bats this season over 98 games and has made only four errors.

Instead of Larkin facing Houston's Roy Oswalt last night, it was 23-year-old Anderson Machado making his major-league starting and hitting debut. Machado, who the Reds got from the Phillies on July 31 as part of the deal for reliever Todd Jones, was 0-4 and stuck out three times.

"They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said. "That'll make it easier for them this offseason."

Asked if this meant anything as far as Larkin's future with the Reds, O'Brien said, "No, not really. This is more about the fact that we need to see if either Felipe or Machado can be a starting major-league shortstop or a combination."

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Larkin earned the right to start at SS at least 3 times per week. Larkin does well when he starts. Check the stats. Playing Lopez and Machado in the final 25 games isn't going to prove anything. Wow. 25 games.

It is going to take Larkin 10 tries to make the HOF. He is close to reaching milestones such as George Davis' 451 doubles, career 200 hrs, Reese and Aparicio's runs scored, etc.

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Originally Posted by RedsRule30

Larkin earned the right to start at SS at least 3 times per week. Larkin does well when he starts. Check the stats. Playing Lopez and Machado in the final 25 games isn't going to prove anything. Wow. 25 games.

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I depends which way you look at it.

"They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said.

To me, this remark sounds a bit selfish - which just might be the cause of frustration - as Larkin is not the future shortstop for the Reds. But Lopez or Machado could be.

If you state that playing Machado / Lopez 25 games means nothing, why should another 25 starts for Larkin mean something? And why are decisions each spring based on about 25 exhibition games? The games til October are meaningless for the Reds, so I understand that the team wants to take a closer look at some players, who like in Machado's case would not have been given a shot if the Reds still were in the pennant race. Machado will get some experience, learn some more things from the hitting coach and get some more (and needed) at bats, as the AAA season is over. If Machado impresses the rest of the season, the Reds have a better basis what to do with him (re-signing or not). Granted, Larkin is a considerable better hitter than both Lopez and Machado, but the younger players need every extra at bat and experience in the field they can get.

25 games less played won't hurt Larkin's HOF chances, in my opinion. Either he is already in with his current lifetime stats or not. But creeping like in his case towards the next personal milestone while taking playing time away from his successors is something I do not welcome.

Larkin needs those 25 more games more than Machado to bolster his HOF chances. Larkin is 8th all-time in runs scored by a shortstop and can move up to 6th all-time with 10 more runs. Larkin is 3 hrs away from 200. He is 48 hits away from 98th all-time and tying Sandberg.

Larkin needs these milestones so he makes the HOF in 4-5 tries, rather than 9-10 tries.

I don't see how 25 games for Machado are going to magically prove that he is the shortstop of the future. Let Machado prove himself in spring training. His stats suck in the minors. Benching Larkin is a major insult. If Machado was an awesome shortstop prospect, then I would support it, but he clearly isn't. Lopez is the SS of the future, not Machado.

Also, I am stunned that Juan Castro has been stealing at-bats from Larkin even though Castro will probably leave as a free agent. Heck, even Darren Bragg has been stealing at-bats from Larkin by playing OF and forcing Freel to 3B and Lopez to SS. Larkin has to be pissed off.

I will be amazed if Machado is starting at SS and playing everyday in 2005. He better not be a Rey Ordonez clone (worst hitter in history with 3000+ at-bats).

I can understand players WANTING to make the Hall of Fame, but my personal belief is that it should be up to the HOF voters to decide that. Larkin's job is to do the best he can do, and if his performance career-wise warrants a vote into the HOF, that is great news. If not, at least he had a great career and I'm sure achieved many of his personal goals.

To me, tacking on 25 games for the sole reason of getting HOF status is the same as sitting out a bunch of games in order to preserve a high batting average, swinging for the fences on every single pitch in order to break a homerun record, moping all over the mound in order to throw off the timing of the hitter or to preserve energy.

Barry needs to just step away from the game, and enjoy life. He's still healthy. Any one injury could change all that. He'll have no problem at all finding work elsewhere in baseball. Just not as a player. His time has come.

I do think that a very small part of the front office's decsion to bench Larkin is due to the mistake they made in signing him to such a large contract at such a late point in his career, realizing that they should have all along put more effort into developing or acquiring someone to take Larkin's spot.

Stepping aside from my allegiance to the Reds, I can see how in some ways Barry might not make the HOF. Sadly, he played in between eras, between the wizard of Oz, and the power hitting shortstops that we see today. That isn't his fault, but there is no guarantee that HOF voters will see it the way we do. All they will see is the numbers.

Good luck, Barry, in all that you do in the future! :thumbup:

It's amazing how 50 rbis and hits can improve a player's HOF chances. I guarantee that if Tony Perez had 100 fewer rbis, he wouldn't be in the HOF. Perez's sole claim to making the HOF was having the most rbis for a non-HOF player.

Larkin will have fewer hits than Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, and Ryne Sandberg (lock for HOF in 2005 or 2006 IMO). That is really going to hurt.

Why should a HOF voter select Larkin when Trammell and Whitaker aren't in the HOF? That is what some HOF voters are going to think.

With 48 more hits, Larkin moves from 110th all-time to 98th all-time and drastically improves HOF chances.

Machado is a mediocre hitting and fielding SS. My guess is that he may be moved to 2B if Jimenez gets non-tendered (good chance IMO).

Expected 2005 Reds lineup.

C: Larue (non-tendering Larue would be insanely stupid)
1B: Casey
2B: Machado (or Lopez, whatever)
SS: Lopez
3B: Freel (maybe Kearns, who knows)
LF: Dunn
CF: Pena
RF: Griffey (maybe 1B if Casey traded)

Edit: I think Larkin is actually a lock due to his stats from 1988-2000 (11 all-stars and 9 silver sluggers). I just don't want to see him wait 8-9 years rather than 4-5 years. HOF voters like to make a player wait extra long if a borderline case. Larkin's injury history and missed games are going to look bad.

I have no problem, in theory, in benching Larkin, but there's no way that he should be benched in favor of Juan Castro, who for some reason keeps getting at bats.

Perhaps Barry will play (somewhere) next year and have a chance to gather those 50 hits and whatever else.

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Originally Posted by RosieRed

Perhaps Barry will play (somewhere) next year and have a chance to gather those 50 hits and whatever else.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by RosieRed

Perhaps Barry will play (somewhere) next year and have a chance to gather those 50 hits and whatever else.

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If he does I believe he lessens his HOF chances. People dig the fact that he has been with one team his whole career.

Doesn't sound very good for his chances at landing a front office job after he retires.

It's sad, but it's the right time. He can play, but he has been too risky with the injuries, and I for one want to see the new faces. Atleast Lopez. I think he will be a very talented short stop or 3rd basemen in the future. I would like to have Larkin return next year as a backup. I really love the guy. Every Reds fan should, but he needs to stop pulling a Michael Moore on us and drop the little conspiracy theories. It's getting old.

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"They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said. "That'll make it easier for them this offseason."

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SHUT. UP. :dflynn:

Well said, LvJ. :thumbup:

Good lord. I like Barry as much as the next guy, but he needs to realize that the Reds are more than just him. Barry, you are not "The Future." If he loves the club so much, why is he so upset at the club for trying to make his heir the best SS he can be? IIRC, back at the beginning of the season Larkin was talking his game about playing part-time and being on the club to show Lopez the ropes. I thought that was noble of him - this is petulant.

Let it go, Barry. Please. You're endearing yourself to nobody.

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Originally Posted by RFS62

Doesn't sound very good for his chances at landing a front office job after he retires.

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Barry doesn't have much of a chance as long as JA is in charge IMO. He has made several disparaging remarks about the FO without naming names, but it was pretty clear the one most qualified to fit with the remarks was Allen. The article mentioned fielding is still tough for him with the abdominal injury, yet he makes a backhanded remark about being kept off the field. Like no one knows what Barry can still do. He is a real tool sometimes.

He brought this on himself by having the club cancel "Barry Larkin Day" and announcing his intention to consider playing next year. When he did that, he forfeited any "right" to play out the season. DanO wants... no... needs to move the club in a new direction and a 41 year-old SS isn't part of those plans. I agree it's an ugly reality and a shame it happened this way, but I'm not sympathetic. Let him get those milestones elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go

Good lord. I like Barry as much as the next guy, but he needs to realize that the Reds are more than just him. Barry, you are not "The Future." If he loves the club so much, why is he so upset at the club for trying to make his heir the best SS he can be? IIRC, back at the beginning of the season Larkin was talking his game about playing part-time and being on the club to show Lopez the ropes. I thought that was noble of him - this is petulant.

Let it go, Barry. Please. You're endearing yourself to nobody.

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I too am getting tired of the annual "Barry is hurt and disapointed story." He needs to realize that this club needs to move on.

I guess he keeps playing this up to the media because it seems to work for him every time he does it.

The self-proclaimed Icon is a cancer to the Reds clubhouse; always has been and always will be. I will never forgive him for ripping his captain's "C" off of his uniform in protest over a trade. I'm waiting for the Icon to invite George Vogel or Ken Broo into his rental property (remember, the Cincinnati Icon hasn't lived here for over 12 years) and make a last minute plea to he fans and Carl Lindner to step in on his behalf, just as he did last year. I know for a fact that John Allen felt completely betrayed when Lindner intervened and brought the Icon back for 2004, so I bet he's licking his chops to bring the axe down now. As for the Icon in a front office role; well, he's had 20 years of experience in that area with his open door access to Jim Bowden and Carl Lindner, but would you want a person in your inner circle who has proven time and time again to be a divisive influence? :eek:

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Originally Posted by RedsRule30

Larkin needs those 25 more games more than Machado to bolster his HOF chances.

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If Barry Larkin's HOF induction depends on these last 25 games, then he ain't gonna make it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Red Thunder

I depends which way you look at it.

"They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said.

To me, this remark sounds a bit selfish - which just might be the cause of frustration - as Larkin is not the future shortstop for the Reds. But Lopez or Machado could be.

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My take on it too RT. When I read the article this morning in the Dayton Daily News I said to myself... "Here's Barry running to the media again and whining about his playing time, and not what is best for this team's future." I love ya Barry....BUT SHUT UP!!

You have to play Lopez consistently to see what we got. Benching him even once or twice a week so that Barry can play is not gonna do him any good, and Barry should realize this.

I stated over a year ago that the only way that they'd get Larkin out of that SS position was to have someone go out there on the field and drag him off kicking and screaming. Because a guy who spent most of his career being an unselfish player has become a selfish one over these last few years IMO. And I'm getting tired of it.

Bow out gracefully Barry, and preserve your good standing with this organization and the fans.

And again.... SHUT UP! :D

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Originally Posted by RFS62

Doesn't sound very good for his chances at landing a front office job after he retires.

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His chances of getting a FO job were zero with Allen in charge anyway.

If Machado is the future, the future is pretty scary. I think the Reds owe it to the ticket holders to put their best team on the field. If the Reds are going to show Barry the door next year, they have the entire 2005 season to show us Machado and Lopez.

Barry has said numerous times that he really doesn't care if he makes the HOF or not. This isn't about Barry trying to get some magical milestone for the HOF. Even the people that dislike Barry must admit that Larkin in the lineup is better than Machado (hands down), and at least arguably better than Lopez.

I hope Barry does go to another team next year, so he can leave the game with some pride and respect, instead of being crapped on by DanO and Allen.
I really don't know why he wanted to come back here this year, after they treated him so poorly.

Barry's only "mistake" was telling the truth and calling out this lame franchise for having no interest in trying to win.

Also, if Lark plays elsewhere next year, I doubt it hurts his HOF chances at all. It's not like he's going to leave on some money grab. He's being forced to leave. Even if he has a terrible year, it won't hurt him.

RR,

How is Barry being "crapped on" or treated poorly??

Bring Barry back to the Reds next year but not for anything over 1.2 million. He could be the Manny Mota pinch hitting expert. Larkin can still swing the bat and come up with some clutch hits especially late in the game. One of the biggest problem with the Reds was a weak bench.

As far as the everyday shortstop, I think Felipe Lopez has shown that he is ready to take over. With help from coaches Chamblis and Whisler, Lopez has improved on his hitting and fielding, and there is no reason why he can't be the everyday shortstop next season?

Machado? Why not take a look at him. Castro is a free agent and will probably be asking more than the Reds are willing to play. Maybe he can replace Castro defensively off the bench. IMO, Olmedo would be the better choice but why he isn't up here too has me scratching my head.

Wednesday, September 8, 2004

Larkin's told to sit on bench
O'Brien claims Reds captain supportive of diminished role
By John FayEnquirer staff writer

HOUSTON - Anderson Machado, fresh up from Triple-A Louisville, was in the starting lineup for the Reds on Tuesday night.

With Felipe Lopez getting the bulk of the time at shortstop before Machado arrived, where does that leave Barry Larkin? As a pinch-hitter for the rest of the year.

"The majority of the playing time is going to go to Machado and Lopez," Reds general manager Dan O'Brien said. "We met with Barry today and told him that. He was supportive."

The Reds are looking for a permanent replacement for Larkin, 40, who has been a fixture at shortstop for the Reds since 1986.

That does not mean that Larkin will not return to the Reds next year. He is a free agent after this season.

"This situation - with Machado and Lopez - doesn't affect next year with Barry," O'Brien said.

Larkin originally planned to make this season his last. But in July he asked the club to cancel a planned Barry Larkin Day.

Larkin has not decided whether he'll play next season. O'Brien says the club will deal with free agents, including Larkin, after the season.

Larkin has not started a game since Friday in Milwaukee. He has not started on back-to-back days since Aug. 10-11. In the 24 games since then, Larkin has started only five.

Part of that is because of the way Lopez is playing. Part of that is because Larkin has been dealing with a strained oblique muscle. The injury doesn't bother him at the plate - he has 15 hits in his last 43 at-bats (.349) - but it limits his range in the field.

The Reds have an opening at shortstop and third base for next year. Lopez started at third Tuesday.

To think Machado, 23, would be ready to play regularly next year could be wishful thinking. He hit .228 with six home runs and 38 RBI in 109 Triple-A games. He looked overmatched against Roy Oswalt on Tuesday. He struck out on three pitches in his first two at-bats, and on five pitches his third time up.

Lopez, 24, is a more realistic possibility. He went into Tuesday hitting .291 with five home runs and 17 RBI in his last 36 games.

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/09/08/red1barry.html

Wow.... this team is rediculous. Why would you tell someone that their services are no longer needed?... This team has a problem with injuries, and i realize that Barry isn't 100% but he is battling thru it and he wants to play, and when he is playing he is producing. I just don't understand why they would do that. :thumbdown

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Originally Posted by RedsRule30

Playing Lopez and Machado in the final 25 games isn't going to prove anything.

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Not true. While it will not prove if they can handle it next year, it can prove that they are not in any sense ready for the bigs.

The Astros had the book on Machado. Throw breaking balls and he has no chance. He never even fouled one off. He couldn't have hit them with an ironing board. I think these last 3 weeks will prove that Machado is hopelessly overmatched as a hitter.

I never quite understood the Machado pickup anyway. My only thought is that he would be an alternative to Castro next year... But I thought we had Ray O for that???

IF Lopez is deemed the SS of the future, and Olmedo is the next "Manos De Oro" then why Machado..... UNLESS the Phillies forced him as a throw-in. (We'll give you Hancock for Lidle, but you've got to take Machado off our hands too)

:confused:

If Juan Castro keeps getting at bats and Barry Larkin can't i'm gonna scream. I pray for the day Juan Castro is off this team. It's an absolute joke.

What goes around comes around,
Barry, don't look back when you hear that sound.
What goes around comes around,
And it won't be long till it all comes down

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/barry.gif

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Originally Posted by TeamCasey

RR,

How is Barry being "crapped on" or treated poorly??

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He's EARNED playing time this year, but DanO is benching him the rest of the season in favor of Machado and Castro. With 3b open, Larkin and Lopez could both play. Machado and Castro do not deserve playing time over Larkin.

It's absurd to bench Larkin with the year he's had when healthy.

The excuse of "the future" is bogus. If that's the case, then why give Wilson, Castro, and arguably LaRue/Jimmez any playing time? They're not here for the long term either.

Sorry RedRead but Larkin also is not playing regularly and was happy a few weeks ago to be just pinch hitting, and seemed UPSET! that the Reds wanted him to do some fielding practice.

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Originally Posted by westofyou

What goes around comes around,
Barry, don't look back when you hear that sound.
What goes around comes around,
And it won't be long till it all comes down

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Yeah, Castro and Machado are certainly as well thought of as Stilwell and Larkin were in 1987 :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by REDREAD

Yeah, Castro and Machado are certainly as well thought of as Stilwell and Larkin were in 1987 :rolleyes:

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If that's what I was trying to say you'd be right.

But it isn't.

Circle of life.

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Originally Posted by RFS62

Circle of life.

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http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/icons/oroboros.gif

I agree.

Larkin? Selfish? NO!!! You must be joking!

(sarcasm OFF)

As noted more than once before, Larkin's exit from Cincinnati will NOT be graceful. He'll go out like Ozzie Smith did--bitter, spiteful, and in denial.

Also:

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"They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said. "That'll make it easier for them this offseason."

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Please note that this quote did NOT appear in either of the Cincinnati papers. According to the Post and the Enquirer, Larkin was completely supportive of the decision. Whoops. He's got the local press in his pocket.

God forbid this guy ever gets anywhere near the Reds front office.

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Originally Posted by Puffy

I agree.

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With?


;)

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Originally Posted by KronoRed

With?


;)

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Actually nothing - i just wanted to post something on the basball side - why, wanna argue about it :censored:

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Originally Posted by Puffy

Actually nothing - i just wanted to post something on the basball side - why, wanna argue about it :censored:

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:lol: :lol: :lol: