Trading either Cueto, Chapman, Leake, Latos or Bruce and when?

I don't value a prospect in the same token as some of you, that is obvious. However, I can change an opinion, or think outside of the box in some instances, and with my pessimistic approach to things--this team is a broken team, and will be a broken team unless some changes are made. (Yes I know there are injury issues... but, let's be honest... this 2014 year, is/has been a STRANGE and horribly unlucky year for the Reds... and it is my experience (as a poster on a different thread pointed out... these outlier years, once they get going... seem to just.. well... never get better.)

So, looking at the organization... a philosophy may have to change sooner rather than later... when the Reds will have to shift gears and go in quasi-rebuild mode, and focus on getting younger cheaper talent.. ie. the dreaded prospect deals for established major league stars.

I figure... by 2016... in order to keep Chapman/Cueto/Leake/Latos/Bruce in Cincinnati the price tag will be a MINIMUM of 70 million between the five. Chapman will be getting 10 mil+ in arbitration. Cueto/Leake/Latos (based on Bailey's deal, will be getting 18-20mil per annum when he hits the open market) and Bruce will be making 12.5 mil at that point in his contract.) And, since there is no way the Reds are moving Phillips, Bailey, or Votto's contracts off the books.... some deals will need to be made.

With these five Reds, and the Rest of the core 2014 roster, the possible estimated payroll for the Reds in 2016 at will be a MINIMUM of 140+ million.
(assuming--the Reds would/could be sign Cueto/Leake/ and Latos (for a LAUGHABLE 14 MIL PER YEAR AVERAGE between the three)... Throw in arbitration increases for Cingrani, Frazier, Mesoroco, et al.) [MIND YOU... THIS IS NOT ACCOUNTING FOR BENCH PLAYERS OR BULLPEN PLAYERS.]

I am wondering when it would be time to trade 1, 2, or 3 of these players (Cueto, Bruce, Chapman, Leake, Latos) and who can they get in return?

A couple of things I firmly believe...

1. THE REDS MUST SIGN two of the three starting pitchers to have a shot at contention. PERIOD.
2. I am coming off trading Stephenson... and I will concede that, you have to roll the dice with this kid...

That being said, with Winkler, Ervin, Stephenson, Lively coming up... crossing fingers the Reds are 50% in that group and find two legitimate above average contributors from that group....

What minor leaguers would you target with Cueto, Chapman, Leake, Latos or Bruce?


Perusing the lack of depth at the SS/3B position for the Reds organization... and trying to fit rookies/young players in at SS/3B.... do the Reds double down on some bets there?

Examples:
Trade (Cueto, Chapman, Leake, Latos or Bruce) to the Dodgers for Seager and Guerrero?
and
Trade (Cueto, Chapman, Leake, Latos or Bruce) to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts AND Garin Cecchini?

I think I'd focus on getting some proven big league talent for a run the rest of this year and the next two to three years before Votto begins to decline and the pitching declines and/or leaves.

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Originally Posted by Old school 1983

I think I'd focus on getting some proven big league talent for a run the rest of this year and the next two to three years before Votto begins to decline and the pitching declines and/or leaves.

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Begins to decline?

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Originally Posted by Don Votto

Begins to decline?

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It can be pretty easily argued that he's declined but he's still at least an all star quality player, and it could be argued that's an understatement. But I was speaking of a decline to where he's obviously not at least an all star quality player. Build around what we have. It won't be here forever. I want the future strong but don't neglect the present.

Trade Cueto to Dodgers for Joc Pederson and Dee Gordon.

It has always been my opinion that closers are a dime a dozen and can be manufactured quite easily. If the organization isn't going to make Chappy a starter, he would be my first choice to deal.

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Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

It has always been my opinion that closers are a dime a dozen and can be manufactured quite easily. If the organization isn't going to make Chappy a starter, he would be my first choice to deal.

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closers like Chapman aren't a dime a dozen though

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Originally Posted by NC-Red

closers like Chapman aren't a dime a dozen though

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Maybe they should be though. His career save rate, despite seeming utter dominance, isn't really better than the average closer.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

Maybe they should be though. His career save rate, despite seeming utter dominance, isn't really better than the average closer.

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Why not just try him as a starter right now and see what happens? I understand that he could be ineffective in that role and it might, stressing might, cost the reds some wins, but why should the reds care if they destroy his arm? It is likely they wont reap the benefits if he succeeds as a starter anyway, and if he is a closer he is not worth a huge contract. If he does succeed in a starting role he could bring way more value to the Reds while he is under their control. In his current role as you have stated, he is really no more valuable than a good year of David Weathers.

And yes, I know this won't happen, but it is worth pondering.

He's a quality player, but I think making this list is extremely generous to Leake.

I wouldn't consider trading Cueto until AT EARLIEST july 2015 and would be pushing for an extension.
I wouldn't consider trading Bruce probably at all.

I would rather keep Chapman, but would be open if someone made a huge offer.

That leaves Leake and Latos. I would consider dealing 1 of them IF we are somehow out of it this July. I don't expect that to be the case at all. If you're in the hunt, you don't deal a healthy Latos and most likely not Leake either. I would favor an extension for Latos if 2014 goes OK. Leake I would eventually let walk even though I like him because I think Stephenson is going to kick the door down sooner rather than later and several rotation spots are spoken for. If he can fetch a good return before then I would consider it, although I'm hesitant if we're in a playoff race.

I'd trade Chapman. He is overrated as people can't look past all of his 100+mph fastballs.

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Originally Posted by American Luxury

I'd trade Chapman. He is overrated as people can't look past all of his 100+mph fastballs.

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I think he is a bit overrated as well, but what a coincidence this post came after he blew a save.

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Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!

I think he is a bit overrated as well, but what a coincidence this post came after he blew a save.

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lol yeah I joined this forum just to post that. He wasn't that special last year, either.

how about trading Joey Votto? he hasnt near lived up to his contract and the Reds could still get a couple good hitters for him. I'd trade him before any of the ones above besides Bruce

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Originally Posted by zjr1717

Why not just try him as a starter right now and see what happens? I understand that he could be ineffective in that role and it might, stressing might, cost the reds some wins, but why should the reds care if they destroy his arm? It is likely they wont reap the benefits if he succeeds as a starter anyway, and if he is a closer he is not worth a huge contract. If he does succeed in a starting role he could bring way more value to the Reds while he is under their control. In his current role as you have stated, he is really no more valuable than a good year of David Weathers.

And yes, I know this won't happen, but it is worth pondering.

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Chapman as constituted is best suited for the role he is in, which is throwing bullets for one inning.

He can't throw the ball over the plate with enough consistency to be counted on in the rotation, and his slider, while deadly when thrown correctly, isn't thrown correctly enough to get hitters to lay off his fastball, which probably wouldn't be topping triple digits once he's into the 3rd or 4th inning of a start.