Re: Who Brought Them Here?
So far, O'Brien netted more "highly touted" prospects, whereas Krivsky's netted us depth.
Advantage = Push.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Not sure how fair it is to include Bowden, Kullman and Maddox. JimBo was 4 years ago now, the other two had a very minimal impact. JimBo is currently responsible for 4 of 8 position players though. Dunn, Jr., EE and Votto.
I do like looking at a comparison of DanO and Kriv as far as prospect talent goes.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Just going by this list, I'd say DanO's prospects had a MUCH higher ceiling than Kriv's so far. That could have been blind squirrel, draft class, or skill. Who knows.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TRF
Not sure how fair it is to include Bowden, Kullman and Maddox. JimBo was 4 years ago now, the other two had a very minimal impact. JimBo is currently responsible for 4 of 8 position players though. Dunn, Jr., EE and Votto.
I do like looking at a comparison of DanO and Kriv as far as prospect talent goes.
It wasn't necessarily meant to be viewed as a competition between WayK, DanO, and JimBo--it's just an objective list of who acquired the Reds' current prospects.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Great list. I think that this shows the tremendous effort O'Brien tried to make to restock the talent after Bowden.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
I get that. It seems like 4+ years later, and he is still influencing the Reds ML club.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
DanO has gotten a lot more out of the higher-round draft picks, but to be fair, Wayne Krivsky's draft picks haven't had as much time to produce, and it took three years for Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey to really blossom into the top prospects they are today.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoReds33
Great list. I think that this shows the tremendous effort O'Brien tried to make to restock the talent after Bowden.
That's what I take from it, too. I'm a big believer in Wayne Krivsky, but I'll give Dan O'Brien credit for taking huge steps in building the Reds' farm system. Unfortunately for him, he had a five-year plan and a three-year contract. Krivsky, on the other hand, seems to be fast forwarding similar progress, in my opinion.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
camisadelgolf
DanO has gotten a lot more out of the higher-round draft picks, but to be fair, Wayne Krivsky's draft picks haven't had as much time to produce, and it took three years for Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey to really blossom into the top prospects they are today.
Bruce and Bailey were HS picks. Stubbs was a college pick, he should be performing at a higher level by this time, especially coming out of the Big 12 conference.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TRF
Bruce and Bailey were HS picks. Stubbs was a college pick, he should be performing at a higher level by this time, especially coming out of the Big 12 conference.
You just had to open that can of worms, didn't you? :D There is no doubt that Jay Bruce + Homer Bailey > Devin Mesoraco and Jay Bruce, but overall, I still prefer the Wayne Krivsky drafts.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoReds33
Great list. I think that this shows the tremendous effort O'Brien tried to make to restock the talent after Bowden.
I'd say it shows just the opposite. Two years later and there's very little left of DanO's regime.
What's on that list? Two #1 picks? Great, they should be on the list. You've got two international signings. Cueto I love, but Francisco's got a .301 OB in low A, at best he's problematic.
Then you've got Wood and some sleepers.
DanO came away with very little beyond his top two picks in the gold star drafts of 2004 and 2005. That's the opposite of restocking.
If you want to see a tremendous effort, look at what Krivsky's done to augment his drafts. It's a little early to know if he's found much in the international waters (though Chiu and Cech are already in the system), but he's branched out beyond Latin America. He's also acquired for Maloney, McBeth, Smit, Thompson, Castro, Henry and Jukich from other organizations.
Bruce, Bailey and Cueto are nice, but they're really the bare minimum a front office should have produced through two talent-laden drafts and a major international signing push. The case for DanO strikes me as rather facile.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
O'Brien had the advantage of a #7 pick (Bailey) and having the #12 pick (Bruce) in one of the most talent heavy first rounds in decades. Also, GM's probably aren't involved as we might think in the amateur drafts. I know for sure Krivsky had a distant approach to the 2006 draft as he said so himself. He (they) should be held accountable though for the scouts that help make the draft day decisions.
Re: Who Brought Them Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HBP
O'Brien had the advantage of a #7 pick (Bailey) and having the #12 pick (Bruce) in one of the most talent heavy first rounds in decades. Also, GM's probably aren't involved as we might think in the amateur drafts. I know for sure Krivsky had a distant approach to the 2006 draft as he said so himself. He (they) should be held accountable though for the scouts that help make the draft day decisions.
Excellent post. GM's ask a few questions and give the overall strategy their blessing, but that's about it when it comes to the draft. The rest is delegated.