Sign these two and be done with the FA market....

Sign these two and be done with the FA market...

1b/RF: Craig Wilson
SP: John Thomson

Then work on an extension for Harang and go ahead and buy out Lohse's last arb-eligible year (maybe with an option for a second year)....

Explore (just explore mind you) trades probably having to use Dunn as the biggest chip once the smoke settles from the market and his value creeps back up as a team's plan B (if you do pull the trigger though hope to god he never learns to go to other way consistently)...

rotation:
Harang
Arroyo
Thomson
Lohse
Milton

AAA holding tank (in case of injury to guys like Thomson/Milton):
Livinston
Ramirez

August callup:
Homer

That's interesting jojo. Of all the names being thrown around for the 3rd starter, not many have brought up Thomson. He looks like he has dropped off signifcantly since his successful '04 campaign. He put up below average WHIP and ERA stats last year, albeit they were in shortened seasons. What makes you want to target him him jojo?

BTW, his stats don't look as good when they are neutralized to the Reds.

Year Ag G W L WL% IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP ERA WHIP ActG
+-------+----+---+---+-----+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+-----+------+----+
1997 23 27 10 8 .556 170.0 184 84 79 14 49 108 5 4.18 1.371 27
1998 24 26 10 8 .556 164.0 167 84 79 20 47 107 0 4.34 1.305 26
1999 25 14 3 4 .429 66.3 77 49 46 10 33 35 1 6.24 1.658 14
2001 27 14 6 4 .600 95.3 80 41 39 14 24 69 4 3.68 1.091 14
2002 28 30 10 10 .500 181.0 203 103 97 28 44 106 2 4.82 1.365 30
2003 29 35 12 12 .500 219.0 229 119 112 26 48 137 4 4.60 1.265 35
2004 30 33 12 9 .571 193.7 221 96 90 21 55 129 6 4.18 1.425 33
2005 31 17 5 5 .500 96.0 117 57 54 6 30 59 2 5.06 1.531 17
2006 32 18 4 4 .500 78.7 97 50 47 11 33 45 2 5.38 1.653 18
+-------+----+---+---+-----+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+-----+------+----+
Totals 214 72 64 .529 1264.0 1375 683 643 150 363 799 26 4.58 1.375 214

If we want good pitching, we need younger pitchers who can "grow" and adjust to our ballpark. Not older pitchers that are set in their ways or will have difficultly learning from a new pitching coach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edd Roush

That's interesting jojo. Of all the names being thrown around for the 3rd starter, not many have brought up Thomson. He looks like he has dropped off signifcantly since his successful '04 campaign. He put up below average WHIP and ERA stats last year, albeit they were in shortened seasons. What makes you want to target him him jojo?
BTW, his stats don't look as good when they are neutralized to the Reds.

Year Ag G W L WL% IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP ERA WHIP ActG
+-------+----+---+---+-----+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+-----+------+----+
1997 23 27 10 8 .556 170.0 184 84 79 14 49 108 5 4.18 1.371 27
1998 24 26 10 8 .556 164.0 167 84 79 20 47 107 0 4.34 1.305 26
1999 25 14 3 4 .429 66.3 77 49 46 10 33 35 1 6.24 1.658 14
2001 27 14 6 4 .600 95.3 80 41 39 14 24 69 4 3.68 1.091 14
2002 28 30 10 10 .500 181.0 203 103 97 28 44 106 2 4.82 1.365 30
2003 29 35 12 12 .500 219.0 229 119 112 26 48 137 4 4.60 1.265 35
2004 30 33 12 9 .571 193.7 221 96 90 21 55 129 6 4.18 1.425 33
2005 31 17 5 5 .500 96.0 117 57 54 6 30 59 2 5.06 1.531 17
2006 32 18 4 4 .500 78.7 97 50 47 11 33 45 2 5.38 1.653 18
+-------+----+---+---+-----+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+-----+------+----+
Totals 214 72 64 .529 1264.0 1375 683 643 150 363 799 26 4.58 1.375 214

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Basically he's a guy you can sign to a one year contract with a reasonable expectation that he'll give you league average quality innings (provided he stays healthy). He has slight ground ball tendencies, doesn't give up a lot of homeruns and he doesn't walk many. Basically if you want an innings eater he has the tendencies that fit the desirable profile without the insane 4 yr/$40M commitment.....

He's a risk as an innings eater given his recent injuries but its a risk that can be limited to one year at an economical price. The upside could be good.

I think those are 2 good names, though I would bounce Wilson and go for Eduardo Perez.

Wilson will cost more loot and probably go for more than one year. Perez could probably be had for 1 year. Then he and Hatte walk and Votto in '08.

I would love Thomson on the cheap...I am still wondering when the 5th slot will be filled, if ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edabbs44

Then he and Hatte walk and Votto in '08.

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look...i am not tryin to doubt any of you zoners but do we "know" votto is the real deal yet?
I mean what if the guy hits 252 with 16 hrs and 58 rbis in Triple A ?

As a reds fan , i hope he is the real deal and puts up triple crown type numbers in the bigs but I wonder sometimes if we arent jumping it a little on handing him the job on so and so date !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmac

look...i am not tryin to doubt any of you zoners but do we "know" votto is the real deal yet?
I mean what if the guy hits 252 with 16 hrs and 58 rbis in Triple A ?

As a reds fan , i hope he is the real deal and puts up triple crown type numbers in the bigs but I wonder sometimes if we arent jumping it a little on handing him the job on so and so date !

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Sometimes you have to take a shot...and if he isn't, it's not like we're talking about signing Pujols. Hatteberg, Wilson and Perez are all second rate guys. You can probably get their equivalents the following off-season. This team can't continue to sign old men for a million or two (or more for Wilson) to be there "just in case".

Either Wilson or Perez could be valuable depth for a bench, or could platoon with votto once he came up. I would see no problem in offering either a 2-3 year deal. Heck, why not even both?

Thomson I wouldn't mind. Indifferent toward Wilson.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind signing Wilson, but I don't think he has anywhere to play. I can't see him signing to platoon with Hatteberg at 1st. Griffey is going to play right everyday(hopefully) and Wilson can't play anywhere else except 1st base. Freel has to get his at bats or Denorfia if Freel gets the nod. I just can't see it.

Unless someone is traded or you want Craig Wilson as your everyday 1st baseman, he has no spot IMO.

Well I'll throw out a couple of names that I think might be of some help to us, and would be cheap guys to have:

1)Eduardo Perez-would fill a platoon role with Hatteberg and does have some pop, and would be a solid bat off the bench also, and would be a valuable backup to Votto in 08.

2)Runelvys Hernandez-was absolutly terrible in 06 with the Royals, but he could be a nice gamble to take a chance on to fill the 5th rotation spot, and if he pans out we could flip him at the deadline for a prospect or two. Low risk high reward type. and being a 5th starter he would only be used @ 22 starts or so.

I agree those two FA would be good pickups,schroomytunes

I think Perez ends up returning to the Reds to play that righty 1b role... he knows his role and would still be a solid role player...


honestly i think we r stuck with the current rotation unless we are able to pawn some prospects off for a good arm which i feel is unlikely