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Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder. I like Bruce, but he's not getting it done. Cingrani is should be replacing Leake in the rotation, who clearly also needs a change if scenery. I'd even nose around for a third warm body to sweeten the deal and get a big name guy with big numbers. Maybe Heisey. The Reds need to change the chemistry.
So, who's available?
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Oops. I did not see the other new thread proposing outfielder trade ideas. Sorry. Maybe an admin wants to merge the two, though this thread is more about the despearate need for a blockbuster trade to obtain a big name cleanup hitter...no nibbling around the edges on this. Let's get a Hall of Fame outfielder.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Bruce will be good for 30/100 not sure somewhere better is available
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HDBoy
It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder. I like Bruce, but he's not getting it done. Cingrani is should be replacing Leake in the rotation, who clearly also needs a change if scenery. I'd even nose around for a third warm body to sweeten the deal and get a big name guy with big numbers. Maybe Heisey. The Reds need to change the chemistry.
So, who's available?
Bruce's defense is too important, especially with choo in center, and when he gets hot hes babe ruth. Now Frazier and leake and a prospect for a 4 hole hitter. It's be up for that. Fraziers D is easly replaceable and honestly I'm not sold on his bat versus quality pitching. Plus his contract is less and Bruce's so he'd be easier to move.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Good idea! Lets trade jay Bruce when his stock is low! Brilliant!
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
The problem I see with trading Frazier is u still have a hole somewhere. If u trade him for a left fielder who plays third. I think Frazier will give u 25 home runs and probably 70-80rbi and his d isn't that bad, so I can't see him getting traded and he is not making very much $.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cincyredway
The problem I see with trading Frazier is u still have a hole somewhere. If u trade him for a left fielder who plays third. I think Frazier will give u 25 home runs and probably 70-80rbi and his d isn't that bad, so I can't see him getting traded and he is not making very much $.
If you use him in a trade for a right handed hitter that is better than he is, that hitter will take his place in the lineup. Hannahan is a superior glove in the field by far so the D would be better too. Im sure you could call up donald or hrod to platoon. So far the comments I've gotten on fraziers D is oh he's not that bad or no ones perfect or stuff around those lines. If you can use him to get better do it. This isnt a shot at you, Hes a nice piece but people around here treat him like some kind of perennial all star. He's an average at best defender who seriously struggles against good pitching and pads his numbers versus average to below average pitching. A lesser version of Bruce. I'm not saying I want him moved but if I had to choose between Bruce and Frazier being traded I pick Frazier all day long unless the return is insane.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kfm
Is this thread serious?
I hope not......unless we can dupe the rays into giving us price and longoria for them. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
I understand what u r saying , I just don't see the benefit in trading Frazier and then playing hanahan and a platoon at third.
Actually after David wright u could make the argument that Frazier is the second best 3rd baseman I. The NLright now. Headley and freeze r good but both have been hurt, Sandoval ...meh Hanley -hurt. I am not sure if I would trade Frazier for any 3rd baseman but wright and probably headley.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cincyredway
I understand what u r saying , I just don't see the benefit in trading Frazier and then playing hanahan and a platoon at third.
Actually after David wright u could make the argument that Frazier is the second best 3rd baseman I. The NLright now. Headley and freeze r good but both have been hurt, Sandoval ...meh Hanley -hurt. I am not sure if I would trade Frazier for any 3rd baseman but wright and probably headley.
I'd use him in a trade for Headley as far as NL third basemen go. Wright won't be traded unless loria buys the mets. Now for outfielders there's quite a few I'd use him in a trade for. Remember the reds won last year because of pitching and D. Our D this year is not as good with choo in center. So part of my reasoning to go after a third basemen is so we can get a centerfield and put choo in a corner. Improve the defense there. Defense is huge especially in GABP. One error or the inability to get to a ball that a superior defender could get to can cost you big time. So with an outfielder that is equal or greater than fraziers production plus with hannahan and whoever at third the team will be better. The outfielder will match Todd and I'm sure hannahan and whoever could match what we've gotten out of left. Actually part of me says call Hrod up instead of lutz put Frazier in left and platoon hannahan and Hrod at third. I think the overall value will be better than the situation we have now.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Some interesting ideas are surfacing here. Somehow, the Reds' team chemistry just isn't quite jelling and I wonder if this group really can rise to championship caliber. That said, they sure were fun to watch during that Post-Votto injury run last year. However, they still have roller-coaster tendencies and I still think Bruce is too inconsistent to be a #4 or #5 hitter.
The bottom line: I think this team is going to need a shake up this year. The Reds cannot afford to wait another year to get it together.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
And I don't really like the idea I trading Frazier. He's a key part of the good side of this team's chemistry.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Name one cleanup hitter a team is gunna give you for them?
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
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Originally Posted by
GotHeeeeem
Name one cleanup hitter a team is gunna give you for them?
For Frazier straight up none but if you package him with leake and prospects I'm sure there's someone out there
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghosts of 1990
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.
One of the most insightful posts on Bruce I've seen on here.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghosts of 1990
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.
Good post, and I agree.
I think this is kind of a make or break year for Jay, in terms of his future with the team.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Not sure it has anything to do with how they see Bruce in the future. It's a bad idea to have 2 guy's locked up for 10+ years.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
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Originally Posted by
jhu1321
Not sure it has anything to do with how they see Bruce in the future. It's a bad idea to have 2 guy's locked up for 10+ years.
Idk if its that so much but I think maybe the reds want to see what they have in lutz and winker, their two big left handed outfield prospects, before they sign Bruce. Why sign a streaky guy for big money when one of your cheap honegrown prospects could be a better option and then use jay in a trade once that is established.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
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Originally Posted by
Old school 1983
Idk if its that so much but I think maybe the reds want to see what they have in lutz and winker, their two big left handed outfield prospects, before they sign Bruce. Why sign a streaky guy for big money when one of your cheap honegrown prospects could be a better option and then use jay in a trade once that is established.
Highly HIGHLY unlikely either Lutz or Winkler ever come anything close to Jay Bruce, even in some of his subpar seasons.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
This is insane! as much as I yell at the TV when Bruce whiffs, you cannot trade him. I think many people forget, he is still younger than both Cozart and Frazier!!!
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghosts of 1990
Highly HIGHLY unlikely either Lutz or Winkler ever come anything close to Jay Bruce, even in some of his subpar seasons.
I doubt either of them would give you the total package with defense the way Bruce does. If one of them offers a more consistent bat in the future and couple that with a trade of Bruce for someone the net effect may lead to a better team. I like Bruce and only seem him getting better (im seeing bruce trying to become a more complete hitter by going the other way this year and once that clicks i think hell take off) but it may be wise to consider and explore all options considering the reds are a mid market team with a huge contract commitment to votto, before they extend Bruce that far.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
I may be wrong but I don't remember any blockbuster trades happening in April or May. All the trade talk is fun but it's moot. Generally teams just don't make big moves early in the season.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
i can remember when bruce started his first season and that crazy streak he went on. Its unbelievable. Its not just a lucky streak and getting his pitches. Its like hes a completely different player. When he was on like that in the beginning at least. He was so patient and had an eye like a eagle. Then all of the sudden couple months later hes swinging at balls that bounce in front of the plate like he went blind.
Ive never really seen him go back to that crazy good streak where he looked like the next phenom. Ive seen him get streaky since.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boiseheidleberg
I may be wrong but I don't remember any blockbuster trades happening in April or May. All the trade talk is fun but it's moot. Generally teams just don't make big moves early in the season.
Oh I know. Any trade talk I'm thinking of would be directed towards being made more towards the deadline.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boiseheidleberg
I may be wrong but I don't remember any blockbuster trades happening in April or May. All the trade talk is fun but it's moot. Generally teams just don't make big moves early in the season.
April 1, 2012, the Reds traded the great Juan Francisco to the Braves for JJ Hoover.
April 16, 1999, the Reds traded the great John Hudek to the Braves for Mark Wohlers.
May 29, 1994, the Reds traded the great Roberto Kelly and a minor leaguer to the Braves for Deion Sanders.
May 19, 1988, the Reds traded the great Pat Perry to the Cubs for Leon Durham.
April 7, 2006, the Reds traded Jeff Stevens to the Indians for Brandon Phillips.
April 19, 1994, the Reds traded the great Marty Lister and Ross Powell to the Astros for Eddie Taubensee.
May 9, 1983, the Dodgers traded Brett Wise and John Franco to the Reds for the great Rafael Landestoy.
April 3, 1990, the Reds trade Jeff Richardson and Mike Roesler to the Pirates for the great Billy Hatcher.
May 29, 1971, the Reds trade Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy to the Giants for the great George Foster.
Never say never.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
I'd take a similar trade right now...Landestoy for Franco...Geishert for Foster...the closest migjt br Soto for a Hoover quality arm akin to Francico/JJ...or a couple prospect arms for a Hatcher LF....but I don't see any way the Reds get Fowler without a Cueto like return.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RedlegJake
I'd take a similar trade right now...Landestoy for Franco...Geishert for Foster...the closest migjt br Soto for a Hoover quality arm akin to Francico/JJ...or a couple prospect arms for a Hatcher LF....but I don't see any way the Reds get Fowler without a Cueto like return.
I was thinking more towards the deadline. While some of the guys that were acquired in those April deals went on to greatness at the time they were minor to moderate transactions.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Bruce's K rate is up to 32%....
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
I'm starting to feel sorry for Jay. This is like beyond ugly for him.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
He'll probably go on a terror at some point and do his best babe Ruth impersonation for a month and even things out. Well at least I hope. Idk if I've ever seen him K this much.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Bruce got into a Twitter war with some of his fans last night. I really enjoy Twitter but I don't know if players being on during the season is a good thing. DatDudeBP posts a lot of pictures late at night during the season of him at clubs drinking and it just rubs me the wrong way. Personally, if I were paid $10 mil a year to play baseball for 6 months I would not get drunk every night. I have no complaints with Phillips on the field obviously, I just think it is strange that he broadcasts his late night drinking.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
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Originally Posted by
RedTeamGo!
Bruce got into a Twitter war with some of his fans last night. I really enjoy Twitter but I don't know if players being on during the season is a good thing. DatDudeBP posts a lot of pictures late at night during the season of him at clubs drinking and it just rubs me the wrong way. Personally, if I were paid $10 mil a year to play baseball for 6 months I would not get drunk every night. I have no complaints with Phillips on the field obviously, I just think it is strange that he broadcasts his late night drinking.
Bruce is obviously frustrated and he got baited by the trolls. At least he cares.
Last year Vernon Wells was tweeting "too blessed to be stressed" and dancing before games while making $21 mil batting .230.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
I can't feel sorry for guys making millions of dollars. It comes with the territory. You can call me any name in the book for whatever Bruce is making.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Bruce will put up 30hr and 100 RBI. He might get there with a lot of ups and downs but he gets there and that's what I want from my clean up hitter.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
redsfan4486
Bruce will put up 30hr and 100 RBI. He might get there with a lot of ups and downs but he gets there and that's what I want from my clean up hitter.
He is not the clean up hitter.
I hope he gets there but I am not so sure this year. He looks very lost at the plate. I am aware he is a very streaky player but this feels different. This whole season feels weird. I have a feeling Bruce wants out of cinci.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vottomatic
April 1, 2012, the Reds traded the great Juan Francisco to the Braves for JJ Hoover.
April 16, 1999, the Reds traded the great John Hudek to the Braves for Mark Wohlers.
May 29, 1994, the Reds traded the great Roberto Kelly and a minor leaguer to the Braves for Deion Sanders.
May 19, 1988, the Reds traded the great Pat Perry to the Cubs for Leon Durham.
April 7, 2006, the Reds traded Jeff Stevens to the Indians for Brandon Phillips.
April 19, 1994, the Reds traded the great Marty Lister and Ross Powell to the Astros for Eddie Taubensee.
May 9, 1983, the Dodgers traded Brett Wise and John Franco to the Reds for the great Rafael Landestoy.
April 3, 1990, the Reds trade Jeff Richardson and Mike Roesler to the Pirates for the great Billy Hatcher.
May 29, 1971, the Reds trade Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy to the Giants for the great George Foster.
Never say never.
I don't know that I'd call any of these moves "blockbusters"...I could be wrong.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
none were blockbusters when made but it shows helpful even huge acquisitions CAN be made early. But usually big name multi star trades are not made before the deadline period. Pegging a Foster at that stage though is just blind luck.
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Re: Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter
I would agree that they can be helpful...it seems to me that the organization is merely trying to survive before making any moves. Not saying that's the right move, but I don't see them making a move to shore up LF when they have 3 players to rotate through that position right now.
They see Frazier as their 3B of the future, so they won't make a deal for a 3B and they likely don't want to add a LF with the hopes that they resign Choo...besides, for a month where they played 28 out of 30 days possible, including the last 20 days in a row, and suffered the multitude of injuries that they have suffered, 15-13 (now 15-14) is something I will take.