Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Definitely, but even if its better, it's still not worth getting excited about.

Glorified Janish may not have accurately portrayed what I meant, more like a rich man's Janish, or really just a defensive specialist to put it simply.

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Projects to be better than our current shortstop. Who was a league average player this season. The days where every shortstop hits like Tulo are over.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

Based on his tools. Janish at the same age was playing a full season in Dayton. Gregorius hit .267 between AA, AAA and the Majors this year. Gregorius isn't some superstar at the plate. He projects to be a .275-.280/.330/.400 type of hitter. At shortstop, with outstanding defense.... yeah, Paul Janish can't touch that.

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That seems like a pretty generous projection to me, seeing as he has yet to even do that in the minors.

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Originally Posted by Benihana

Wow, throw out Choo's injury-riddled 2010 where he only played 85 games, and he has averaged an .860 OPS and 150 games played per season the last 3 years. That may just help this Reds lineup...

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Just throwing Griffey as a comp, but Choo could do that and still not have significant overall value if the defensive limitations are significant.

Choo is clearly a terrific hitter, but I think the defense needs to be heavily scrutinized to determine if this is going to be the upgrade it appears on paper.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

Projects to be better than our current shortstop. Who was a league average player this season. The days where every shortstop hits like Tulo are over.

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Maybe based on the most favorable projections possible, even so, how does that end up a top 100 prospect?

In case anyone missed it, Dusty Baker said at RedsFest that he feels Brandon Phillips is ideal for the #2 slot in the batting order. He also said Frazier will be the Opening Day third baseman. If this trade goes through, it looks like we have our starting lineup set.

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Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Well, Cleveland has more SS than they need already. No reason for them to acquire another one. Meanwhile, they've been working hard at a deal with Arizona, presumably for Trevor Bauer. The D'Backs have a ton of SP and presumably want to deal some of it to land a SS if they can't get one via an Upton trade.

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So Cleveland would trade for Didi and then flip him. The Reds would hold on to Choo, correct?

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

That seems like a pretty generous projection to me, seeing as he has yet to even do that in the minors.

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He is also 22 and made his MLB debut this year. Most guys his age are playing in A-ball. Throw him back in Dayton this past season and what does he hit? What about Bakersfield?

He has some work to do still, but most 22 year old baseball players do. He makes a lot of contact. He plays outstanding defense. He has the pop for 10-15 home runs. He has above-average speed. Look at the skills, not just the numbers.

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

That seems like a pretty generous projection to me, seeing as he has yet to even do that in the minors.

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Me, too.

I like his glove, but his arm isn't as good as Janish's. Few ever have been at that spot. His range and athleticism at the SS spot is better, but only by a step.

His bat is much better, but that's damning with faint praise.

Were I a betting man, I'd insist his career OPS doesn't climb above 720.

Whether that's a Top 100 prospect or not, I have no clue.

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Maybe based on the most favorable projections possible, even so, how does that end up a top 100 prospect?

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He was a Top 20 prospect in the Southern League this past season and a Top 10 prospect in the International League this past season. That is going to get you inside a Top 100. It has in the past.

For the record, I love the deal for Choo.

Great OBP. Great gamble for CF.

Outside the box thinking by Jocketty.

Love it.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

He was a Top 20 prospect in the Southern League this past season and a Top 10 prospect in the International League this past season. That is going to get you inside a Top 100. It has in the past.

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I'm not arguing that he might be, you know more about that than I do. I just don't understand how that's happened.

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Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I'm not arguing that he might be, you know more about that than I do. I just don't understand how that's happened.

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You don't understand the value of a solid hitter at shortstop with plus defense then. Even if Gregorius turns out to be a .700 OPS bat, with his defense, that makes him an above-average shortstop in the Major Leagues. Guys like that are Top 100 prospects.

Drew Stubbs and Didi for one year of Choo?

I am in. I really am.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Just throwing Griffey as a comp, but Choo could do that and still not have significant overall value if the defensive limitations are significant.

Choo is clearly a terrific hitter, but I think the defense needs to be heavily scrutinized to determine if this is going to be the upgrade it appears on paper.

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I'm starting to feel a little more wary about this too. The OBP would be a godsend, but you have to wonder how much he'd be giving back in center. Doesn't seem like his skillset would even be close to adequate out there.

The dbacks deal is for Cabrera.