Junior's career as a Red

I read articles again and again about how sad it was Griffey got hurt was. About how his career fell apart after he left Seattle. I've read many negative articles about Griffey's time in Cincy. Sure, tearing your hamstring off the bone is never a happy time. Neither is playing on terrible teams year after year under seemingly indifferent management. But I think he had a great career. And not just a great first 11 years. Go look at all the guys that started playing in their teenage years. Almost all of them played less games than Griffey. He's 31st all time in games played and people talk about him like he had five good years and then died.



Look at these numbers

G R H 2B HR RBI BB
110 61 104 20 24 65 55

Those are his career averages as a Red(as the white soxs, but I included it cause I'm lazy)

Take those numbers over 21 year career(I refuse to count that train wreck of 2010)

G R H 2B HR RBI BB
2,310 1281 2184 420 504 1449 1155

All Time
G:105th
R:131st
H:186nd
2B:148th
Hr:25th
Rbi:60th
BB:68th

Also, if you doubled his career. That would give you six all star appearances, two seasons above .300(.301) two 40 plus home run seasons, four 30 plus home run seasons(35,35,30,30).

Those are arguably Hall of fame numbers. Are they 1st ballot, arguably best center fielder of all time numbers like the first half of his career? No. But they are still impressive. To produce like he did with the injuries is impressive. It also says a lot about him. People talk about how spoiled and moody he was, but he gave his body for the game, for the Reds. He could of played it safe and it would have probably been better for him and the Reds. But he played the game right, 100%, or as close to 100 as he could physically give.

His career, his entire career should be celebrated, not sympathized for. No, he didn't end up being the best player of all time. But he wasn't far from it and it's the way he played that makes me love the game the way I do.

http://reds.enquirer.com/img/photos/...701griffey.jpg

We all wanted his time here to be special. We wanted the Kid. We got injuries. Deep down I don't think anyone blames Junior for those. He was a great great player, even at times in Cincinnati. He'll always be one of my favorites.

I've still never seen a player who was as well rounded as Griffey was in all aspects of the game. Bonds was close, but the defense wasn't on par. ARod was close, though I wonder if it is just easier to make highlight reel type of plays in CF versus SS and that is what gets me. Mike Trout is off to a start that can challenge it, but can he stick in CF long enough is my big question.

Eric Davis in his prime was a highlight reel. If only he could have stayed healthy as well.

Look at Davis' stats for 1987: .293 BA, 37 HR, 100 RBI, and 50 SB!

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Originally Posted by Lewdog

Eric Davis in his prime was a highlight reel. If only he could have stayed healthy as well.

Look at Davis' stats for 1987: .293 BA, 37 HR, 100 RBI, and 50 SB!

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Davis is one of those guys that was just before my time, at least when he was at his best. I was 3 in 1987, so I don't remember that time.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

I've still never seen a player who was as well rounded as Griffey was in all aspects of the game. Bonds was close, but the defense wasn't on par. ARod was close, though I wonder if it is just easier to make highlight reel type of plays in CF versus SS and that is what gets me. Mike Trout is off to a start that can challenge it, but can he stick in CF long enough is my big question.

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I think Griffey was the most talented player all time. I mean, statistically, he is one of the top 30 or less in almost every major category.

Give the guy 145 games a year for 22 or 23 years and he would have crushed everything.

I still think with injuries he was one of the top 10-20 best players ever.

He had the most beautiful swing I have ever seen. It was so silky smooth. I actually really liked Griffey when he was here. Very good player.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

Davis is one of those guys that was just before my time, at least when he was at his best. I was 3 in 1987, so I don't remember that time.

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So was I! So we are same age. Nice.:D

Griffey was a true natural athlete, in that he could have played any sport that he desired. I'm simply glad he chose baseball, because he was still fun to watch in the twilight of his career. Yes, including 2010. The results weren't there anymore, but the feelings he provoked when I first saw him play were. Fun player to cheer for, no matter the uniform he was wearing at the time.

I couldn't even begin to comprehend that Ken Griffey Jr. ever played for the Reds, not the entire time he was here. Not even now. That's how mindblowing it is to me that I got to see him as a Red.

Greatest player all time I still go with Babe Ruth. I know its old hat and all but the guy dominated his era like no player ever has done. He crushed other players of the time - heck he had more homers than other entire teams had. Plus he started as a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher and only converted because he was already setting home run records as a pitcher playing every three or four days. Incredible BA, OBP, SP, he was much faster than given credit for, immensely strong, had an arm like a rifle, was a very, very good fielder. In short he had it all and he changed the game. I don't think anyone else comes close, really, even to this day. For the modern game - I put Junior in the same class as Mays, Mantle, Bonds (Junior was better than Bonds when you subtract the PEDS years from Barry). I saw Mays in person. He's the only one I'd have a hard time saying Junior was better than.

Ken Griffey Jr. was one of those rare players that regardless of what team you rooted for, you enjoyed watching him play and even found that deep inside you were always rooting for him to do something special.

Before he came to the Reds, I remember looking forward to highlights on ESPN of what he did that night with the Mariners.

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Originally Posted by RedlegJake

Greatest player all time I still go with Babe Ruth. I know its old hat and all but the guy dominated his era like no player ever has done. He crushed other players of the time - heck he had more homers than other entire teams had. Plus he started as a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher and only converted because he was already setting home run records as a pitcher playing every three or four days. Incredible BA, OBP, SP, he was much faster than given credit for, immensely strong, had an arm like a rifle, was a very, very good fielder. In short he had it all and he changed the game. I don't think anyone else comes close, really, even to this day. For the modern game - I put Junior in the same class as Mays, Mantle, Bonds (Junior was better than Bonds when you subtract the PEDS years from Barry). I saw Mays in person. He's the only one I'd have a hard time saying Junior was better than.

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I too go with Ruth as the greatest ever.
I rank Willie Mays ahead of Junior as an all around player, both for peak value and career value, and I rank Mickey Mantle ahead of both for peak value. Junior was still great though.

I think you raise an interesting point in regard to Ken Griffey. When you look at his overall numbers they are staggering, all time great 1st ballot Hall of Fame stuff, yet when people talk about him it is more a story of what could have been rather celebrating how great it was.

I am of the opinion that in the near term that "what could have been" argument will be the prevalent one and frankly I think it is legit for reasons that are both were in and out of his control.

Ken Griffey in his prime was one of those rare guys like a Jordan or Gretzky that were "above the boo" meaning that even when he went into opposing stadiums people were more apt to cheer out of appreciation for what he was than boo because he was on the opposing team. That whether you like it or not was based on what he did over his first 11 seasons.

The backside 11 years of his career regardless of the reason was nowhere near the quality of the first 11. Throw in the fact, that as you point out he was considered spoiled and moody during that backside and people felt really let down. To put it in perspective if after the 93 season Michaels Jordan came back from his retirement, was constantly dinged up and average averaged 18 points a game and never won another championship the rest of his career, it is very unlikely he would be viewed the same way as he is today. Would he be a Hall of Famer? Absolutely, but people would always wonder what if

In my opinion what compounds that attitude was the whole steroid component. You have guys like Bonds breaking the HR record, ARoid chasing it down as well, people really wish a guy like Griffey, who by all accounts was clean, would have stayed healthy and put the record out of reach. Again it is "what could have been"

I believe as we get further and further away from his playing days perceptions will change. They will remember the highlight reel catches, they will see the 600+ legit HRs the 1800+ legit RBI and he will be viewed merely as one of the greatest players ever to play and the what could have been arguments will fade away.

Junior provided some great moments in some pretty sad seasons for the Reds. I still remember that game against the Marlins in a rainstorm where Griffey hit a three run bomb to put the Reds up. I was soaked, standing in the rain cheering. Still my favorite Jr. memory.

It's a shame he was always hurt, but when he was on the field he provided a spark in otherwise very dull baseball seasons.