Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RANDY IN INDY
With the way pitchers think, one bad experience can be hard to get out of your head. Catchers are way better at the big league level, but, some are better than others, defensively. It isn't unusual for a pitcher to be selfish and want the best one, or the one he has the most confidence in.
You had better be careful calling players selfish. That doesn't sit well around here.
But I just can't believe that most Major Leaguers are so weak minded that they let something like that get in their way from throwing their pitch. Sure, if they put Todd Frazier in the gear back there, I get being hesitant to bury a breaking ball. But guys that are actually Major League quality catchers?
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jamz
It's not a slight on Hannigan, but Mesoraco is just a better player than he is with loads more potential.
Are we going to see something similar to Rolen/Frazier of last year? Unfortunately with Dusty who knows.
Good heavens, when are we going to see this old canard put to bed. With the Reds, Baker has stood by a considerable number of young players. With a healthy Hanigan, I haven't been surprised at the split in catching. Still Dusty has emphasized that it was important for Mez to be here learning. In your own example, Frazier was none the worse for wear waiting his time. And Zmez is stepping up big time right now.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
A couple of interesting tidbits in a recent piece on Corky:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...nclick_check=1
Quote:
During spring, most of his exhibition game playing time was in the late innings, so he (Miller) made sure to show up early and catch bullpens with the other pitchers, just so he could be familiar with them if he did come up to Cincinnati.
“It’s more for me as well as them. I want them to be OK with me catching,” Miller said. “I try to make sure they’re comfortable in throwing to me.”
LeCure says there’s a trust from Reds pitchers that Miller has earned, something that doesn’t come easily.
Quote:
There’s also a level of trust between Miller and Mesoraco, a young catcher who has spent plenty of time with Miller both in Louisville and spring training. Even before Miller was called up, Mesoraco called Miller for a quick scouting report on Tony Cingrani, who was called up last week to start for the injured Johnny Cueto.
“I think he’s helped me by being there to talk about pitch sequences and things he sees in my game,” Mesoraco said. “I try to bounce ideas off of him about things I should be trying to do or be thinking about in certain situations. He’s always available and gives me good advice.
Those discussions are only bound to increase, as Miller is staying at Mesoraco’s apartment while he’s with the Reds -- and serving as his chauffeur, with Miller not having his car in Cincinnati.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dougdirt
Certainly it is a small sample size, but if Mesoraco were some poor game caller or catcher and was making some kind of difference with the pitchers, those numbers wouldn't be there.
Being able to call a game isn't a skillset that is going to go from good to bad in a sample size. Being able to catch a game isn't going to go from good to bad in a sample size. Either it is or it isn't there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dougdirt
I am not arguing that Mesoraco's numbers are anything. I am arguing that the pitchers are darn good regardless of who is back there between the Reds catching options because both guys are Major League quality catchers.
In the above quote, you say very specifically that if Mesoraco were a poor game caller, the pitchers' numbers would not be there in one week's sample. Clearly, you are arguing the numbers are something.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Thanks for that klw. Interesting read.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brutus
In the above quote, you say very specifically that if Mesoraco were a poor game caller, the pitchers' numbers would not be there in one week's sample. Clearly, you are arguing the numbers are something.
I am saying if he sucked so bad that he shouldn't catch in the Majors, the numbers would reflect that. But since they don't, we should really stop fretting over who is behind the dish for this team.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brutus
In the above quote, you say very specifically that if Mesoraco were a poor game caller, the pitchers' numbers would not be there in one week's sample. Clearly, you are arguing the numbers are something.
The first quote was also taken out of context. Somewhere around the middle of this thread posters were jumping on Leake's and Homer's first couple bad outings as proof of Meso's lack of game calling. The initial argument on Meso's side was, he catches the weaker pitchers, of course his catcher era would look worse than hannigans. Then after Mesoraco caught a weeks worth of games with the better pitchers, it was obvious that the first few bad starts wasn't really his fault. He caught better pitchers. Not really saying the numbers mean anything, just that its not his fault that Homer couldn't throw a fastball for a strike or Leake was leaving pitches up in the zone.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dougdirt
You had better be careful calling players selfish. That doesn't sit well around here.
But I just can't believe that most Major Leaguers are so weak minded that they let something like that get in their way from throwing their pitch. Sure, if they put Todd Frazier in the gear back there, I get being hesitant to bury a breaking ball. But guys that are actually Major League quality catchers?
Most really great ballplayers are somewhat selfish and into themselves. No. most are a lot into themselves. Nothing to see there. Doesn't mean they don't want to be into the team. Self pride and motivation is a quality that most of those guys have. They care, immensely, about their individual stat line as it measures them. If it doesn't sit well around here, it's because those people have not been around many ballplayers.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Well, it's awesome to see Mez making the most of his opportunity now :)
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Any update on Hanigan? Or Cueto for that matter
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Mez starts catching every game and our offense goes in the clunker. Geez. When is Hanigan back? :p ;)
Time to start laughing about this.
What we should be concerned about is the offense suddenly going cold while we have these outstanding starting pitching performances.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vottomatic
What we should be concerned about is the offense suddenly going cold while we have these outstanding starting pitching performances.
How long have you been following baseball?
I assume you know by now, if it's been a while, that slumps happen to every team in every season... usually at least a few times a year; even to the best offenses.
For some reason, though, people freak out everytime it happens.
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brutus
How long have you been following baseball?
I just started today. What are those big hands the players wear when they're out in that grassy area?
Quote:
I assume you know by now, if it's been a while, that slumps happen to every team in every season... usually at least a few times a year; even to the best offenses.
For some reason, though, people freak out everytime it happens.
Dude, just venting my frustration. I'm nearly 50 years old and have seen about everything. It's frustrating to watch a team get "hot" on the mound and go "cold" at the plate. And when they get "hot" at the plate, they seem to go "cold" on the mound.
I think we can all agree it's the most fun when they're "hot" at the plate and the mound! :thumbup: :beerme: :laugh: :p
Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vottomatic
I just started today. What are those big hands the players wear when they're out in that grassy area?
Dude, just venting my frustration. I'm nearly 50 years old and have seen about everything. It's frustrating to watch a team get "hot" on the mound and go "cold" at the plate. And when they get "hot" at the plate, they seem to go "cold" on the mound.
I think we can all agree it's the most fun when they're "hot" at the plate and the mound! :thumbup: :beerme: :laugh: :p
See, that's the problem. These message boards weren't meant for venting. They were meant for discussion. It's hard to have discussions with people when they're simply venting out of frustration. Those people aren't posting things that are rational or logical if they're just venting.
Venting doesn't really promote healthy discussions. If people want to vent, I'd suggest they find a punching bag to take it out on :)