Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

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Originally Posted by reds44

Think he would have been a useful tool in CF this year with the amount of time Ludwick missed, but yeah he is what he is.

Didi finished with a .252/.332/.373/.704 line as a 23 year old. Not terrible, but not "good" either.

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Average NL shortstop this season: .254/.308/.372

I would consider above-average as good. Elite? No, certainly not.

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Originally Posted by TOBTTReds

So not exactly a changed guy like some thought (trust me, some folks on here were talking about how he is a new hitter after one month in Cleveland). His slash line fell just below career averages across the board.

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Many here thought that Dunn was a changed hitter in Arizona which presumably took place on the plane ride to Arizona. A quick start was attributed to a completely changed hitting style vs. a small sample size.

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Originally Posted by PuffyPig

Many here thought that Dunn was a changed hitter in Arizona which presumably took place on the plane ride to Arizona. A quick start was attributed to a completely changed hitting style vs. a small sample size.

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You never know what getting away from Jacoby will do for guys (oh wait, nothing!).

Small update. The Cubs have released Dave Sappelt.

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The Cubs have released outfielder Dave Sappelt, tweets Eddy. As Eddy notes, Sappelt was one of the pieces -- along with lefty Travis Wood and second baseman Ronald Torreyes -- picked up by Chicago in the deal that sent Sean Marshall to Cincinnati. The 26-year-old Sappelt has a .251/.301/.343 slash line in 274 plate appearances spread over the 2011-13 seasons. He has spent most of his time in Triple-A over that time frame, and posted a sub-.700 OPS in each of his two years at Iowa.

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It also turns out that the Cubs dealt Ronald Torreyes to the Astros and I missed that one. He's obviously taken several steps back over the past 2 years, but I still really like that kid. I hate it that he's in the Houston organization now.

Gotta admit that I whiffed on Sappelt. I thought he'd be a good CF who would get on base and add some extra base pop as well. Not elite but something like Bourjos with a little more pop.

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Originally Posted by mth123

Gotta admit that I whiffed on Sappelt. I thought he'd be a good CF who would get on base and add some extra base pop as well. Not elite but something like Bourjos with a little more pop.

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I wouldn't mind having Sappelt at Louisville this year and extending a ST invite.

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Originally Posted by corkedbat

I wouldn't mind having Sappelt at Louisville this year and extending a ST invite.

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Already pretty crowded in the AAA and AA OF.

Lutz, Robinson, Hamilton, Bourgeois, Fellhauer, Perez, Lamarre, Y-Rod, Wilson, Selsky, Smith, Duran, Silva, Waldrop, and I'd guess Winker, Ervin and Arias eventually.

Even cutting a few loose would probably leave little room for Sappelt.

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Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Small update. The Cubs have released Dave Sappelt.

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Wait... he should have started in LF for the Reds.

I read it here on Redszone

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Originally Posted by westofyou

Wait... he should have started in LF for the Reds.

I read it here on Redszone

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If he/the Cubs didn't mess up his swing, he would have been at the very least useful. But man, talk about making something a mess. He went from absolutely no pre-swing movement with a short, compact and quick swing (seen here) to at least four different mechanical changes with the Cubs, including at least two this season. Sappelt started to hit with the Reds when he made things simple and quiet. His timing was right and he started hitting the ball harder, more often. I have no clue what the Cubs were trying to fix when they got him, but yeah, it didn't work and he hasn't hit much sense.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

I don't put any faith in the BR fielding stats.

With UZR, I have more faith, but I will be waiting for the Fielding Bible, especially for a guy with about 60% of a season. Cozart seems about right in that above-average area. Gregorius just doesn't jive with the eye test of a below average defender for me. Maybe he is, I haven't watched him play a ton this year, but I have seen him play a ton in the past and that just doesn't jive with him being a slightly below average defender.

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This is a good example of one of my major pet peeves. We really need to stop confusing things with our language when it comes to talking about a player's skill level (aka True Talent) in the context of past performance.
Sure, we measure them using the same data, but as you know, they're not the same.

Performance is simply a summary of reality, of what happened. We have a complete, if imperfect, record of that. That's not to say our stats are perfect of course; once we move past simple counting to valuation, we have to introduce some assumptions. But still, the interpretation is straight forward as there's an objective reality we can tack back to.

For skill, the best we can ever do is estimate it; after all, that's what it is, an estimate of likely future performance. So we start with past performance, but know that we have to include other information about defensive performance in general to make the most accurate predictions. And the less of the player's performance we have, the more we have to rely on that generic info.

I know you know all of this Doug. But the imprecise language of saying "him being an X defender" in the context of 1000 defensive innings (instead of "him having a X season") confuses things. I know where you're coming from -- if you think he's a plus defender, then an above average season is more likely than a below average one. But even if he's a +5 true talent, a -3 performance is easily within the realm of reasonable seasons, just as a .290 "true talent" hitter hits .250 sometimes (especially a few hundred PA).

My point is that when we're talking about 1000 defensive innings, you shouldn't even bother with the performance data in a conversation about his ability unless it's quite extreme. Otherwise, you only confuse the issue for people who already question the accuracy of defensive stats and who don't fully appreciate the relationship between performance and skill measurement.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

If he/the Cubs didn't mess up his swing, he would have been at the very least useful. But man, talk about making something a mess. He went from absolutely no pre-swing movement with a short, compact and quick swing (seen here) to at least four different mechanical changes with the Cubs, including at least two this season. Sappelt started to hit with the Reds when he made things simple and quiet. His timing was right and he started hitting the ball harder, more often. I have no clue what the Cubs were trying to fix when they got him, but yeah, it didn't work and he hasn't hit much sense.

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The problem I always saw in Sappelt was that he was essentially a singles and doubles hitter who doesn't walk.

Few long balls, few Ks, few BBs. Very dependent on luck. In his brief 2012 Cubs call up, he did well, but in a similar call up this year he did poorly.

He's the kind of hitter who, when things are falling for him, can be effective because he makes good contact usually (although more Ks in 2013 brief NL stint). But little power and few walks.

I never believed in Dave Sappelt . He is the latest in a long line of Redszone-overrated OF who put up a year of solid performance, usually mostly in the minors, but really lack any skills/projection that translates to the big league level.

See Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, and Ben Broussard. Even Steve Gibraltar and Mike Frank going back a few years.

Similarly maybe Torreyes can one day turn into Jose Altuve . But more likely he will be another William Bergolla, Rey Olmedo, or Gookie Dawkins.

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Originally Posted by dougdirt

If he/the Cubs didn't mess up his swing, he would have been at the very least useful. But man, talk about making something a mess. He went from absolutely no pre-swing movement with a short, compact and quick swing (seen here) to at least four different mechanical changes with the Cubs, including at least two this season. Sappelt started to hit with the Reds when he made things simple and quiet. His timing was right and he started hitting the ball harder, more often. I have no clue what the Cubs were trying to fix when they got him, but yeah, it didn't work and he hasn't hit much sense.

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I still remember that compact, Manny-esque swing smoking a line drive about 420 to straight away center in spring training a few years ago. I don't know what happened, but he looked like the real deal up to that point.

dont forget Clyde Mashore and Stan Swanson

Boxberger was traded to the Rays. If you'd like to know more about former Reds prospect Boxberger, you're in for a treat: http://www.fangraphs.com/not/get-to-...rad-boxberger/