Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Here's mine. LHP Marshall for LHP Alex Wood.
Removing Marshall's $12M for the next two years in addition to the $24M saved by moving BP for Uggla would certainly free up a lot of dinero. Wood isn't eligible for arbitration until 2016.
OK. Marshall's shoulder probably kills the deal. So what are the other possibilities? Or is Uggla a deal-breaker?
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
If Uggla is the main course, I'm going on a hunger strike.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M2
If Uggla is the main course, I'm going on a hunger strike.
LOL. C'mon, M2. You'll never know if you don't try that first little bite.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Since 1969 only 93 guys 34 and older have had 400 PA's as 2nd basemen, only36 time sdid they have better than the league average in OPS (and most of the guys who did that are your Morgans, Kents, Griches)
Code:
SEASON
1969-2013
2B
AGE > 33
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OPS YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE OBA SLG AGE
1 Jeff Kent 2002 .170 .933 .763 .028 .142 34 Giants
2 Lou Whitaker 1991 .157 .881 .724 .062 .095 34 Tigers
3 Bobby Grich 1983 .146 .874 .728 .087 .059 34 Angels
4 Bret Boone 2003 .139 .902 .762 .033 .107 34 Mariners
5 Lou Whitaker 1992 .134 .847 .713 .058 .076 35 Tigers
6 Joe Morgan 1982 .123 .838 .715 .071 .052 38 Giants
7 Jeff Kent 2005 .122 .889 .767 .038 .084 37 Dodgers
8 Lou Whitaker 1993 .116 .861 .745 .074 .041 36 Tigers
9 Ray Durham 2006 .113 .898 .785 .017 .096 34 Giants
10 Davey Lopes 1979 .102 .836 .734 .037 .065 34 Dodgers
11 Jeff Kent 2004 .101 .880 .778 .007 .095 36 Astros
12 Chase Utley 2013 .100 .823 .723 .026 .074 34 Phillies
13 Jeff Kent 2007 .097 .875 .778 .033 .064 39 Dodgers
14 Tony Taylor 1970 .089 .837 .748 .035 .055 34 Phillies
15 Jeff Kent 2003 .089 .860 .771 .011 .078 35 Astros
16 Toby Harrah 1985 .088 .820 .733 .104 -.017 36 Rangers
17 Bobby Grich 1984 .084 .809 .724 .031 .054 35 Angels
18 Jeff Kent 2006 .076 .861 .785 .042 .035 38 Dodgers
19 Willie Randolph 1991 .074 .798 .724 .096 -.021 36 Brewers
20 Tony Fernandez 1998 .073 .846 .773 .047 .026 36 Blue Jays
21 Craig Biggio 2001 .058 .838 .780 .042 .015 35 Astros
22 Randy Velarde 1999 .057 .845 .788 .043 .015 36 Angels/A's
23 Joe Morgan 1983 .052 .773 .722 .038 .013 39 Phillies
24 Frank White 1986 .049 .787 .737 -.008 .057 35 Royals
25 Ray Durham 2008 .047 .813 .765 .041 .006 36 Giants/Brewers
26 Davey Lopes 1983 .036 .764 .728 .014 .022 38 A's
27 Jose Valentin 2006 .035 .820 .785 -.013 .048 36 Mets
28 Craig Biggio 2005 .026 .792 .767 -.014 .040 39 Astros
29 Joe Morgan 1980 .023 .740 .716 .038 -.014 36 Astros
30 Joe Morgan 1979 .022 .756 .734 .045 -.023 35 Reds
31 Joe Morgan 1978 .017 .733 .715 .017 .000 34 Reds
32 Marco Scutaro 2012 .012 .753 .740 .021 -.009 36 Rockies/Giants
33 Mark Grudzielanek 2007 .010 .772 .762 .007 .002 37 Royals
34 Tony Phillips 1999 .007 .795 .788 .014 -.007 40 A's
35 Craig Counsell 2009 .005 .766 .761 .019 -.014 38 Brewers
36 Marco Scutaro 2013 .002 .726 .723 .034 -.032 37 Giants
37 Ryne Sandberg 1996 -.001 .760 .761 -.023 .022 36 Cubs
38 Scott Fletcher 1993 -.002 .743 .745 .004 -.006 34 Red Sox
39 Bobby Grich 1985 -.006 .727 .733 .028 -.034 36 Angels
40 Tony Phillips 1997 -.006 .764 .770 .035 -.041 38 White Sox/Angels
41 Willie Randolph 1989 -.008 .692 .699 .044 -.052 34 Dodgers
42 Jay Bell 2000 -.012 .786 .797 -.002 -.009 34 Diamondbacks
43 Bill Doran 1992 -.015 .691 .706 .018 -.033 34 Reds
44 Craig Biggio 2000 -.017 .780 .797 .037 -.054 34 Astros
45 Joe Morgan 1984 -.017 .707 .724 .030 -.047 40 A's
46 Cookie Rojas 1973 -.018 .692 .710 -.008 -.009 34 Royals
47 Jeff Kent 2008 -.020 .745 .765 -.012 -.008 40 Dodgers
48 Tony Fernandez 1997 -.023 .746 .770 -.017 -.006 35 Indians
49 Jamey Carroll 2011 -.024 .706 .730 .032 -.056 36 Dodgers
50 Luis Alicea 2000 -.025 .769 .794 .016 -.041 34 Rangers
51 Mark Grudzielanek 2005 -.025 .741 .767 -.005 -.020 35 Cardinals
52 Craig Biggio 2002 -.029 .734 .763 -.010 -.019 36 Astros
53 Jay Bell 2001 -.031 .749 .780 .010 -.040 35 Diamondbacks
54 Bret Boone 2004 -.032 .740 .773 -.021 -.011 35 Mariners
55 Frank White 1985 -.035 .698 .733 -.043 .008 34 Royals
56 Mark Grudzielanek 2006 -.038 .740 .778 -.009 -.029 36 Royals
57 Randy Velarde 2000 -.040 .754 .794 .004 -.044 37 A's
58 Craig Counsell 2005 -.041 .726 .767 .011 -.052 34 Diamondbacks
59 Mark Ellis 2012 -.043 .697 .740 .007 -.050 35 Dodgers
60 Tony Womack 2004 -.044 .735 .778 .008 -.052 34 Cardinals
61 Eric Young 2003 -.044 .727 .771 -.005 -.039 36 Brewers/Giants
62 Cookie Rojas 1974 -.046 .649 .694 -.014 -.032 35 Royals
63 Mark Ellis 2013 -.050 .674 .723 .000 -.050 36 Dodgers
64 Frank White 1987 -.051 .708 .759 -.025 -.026 36 Royals
65 Davey Lopes 1980 -.051 .665 .716 -.008 -.044 35 Dodgers
66 Eric Young 2001 -.053 .726 .780 -.006 -.047 34 Cubs
67 Willie Randolph 1990 -.054 .664 .718 .011 -.065 35 Dodgers/A's
68 Roberto Alomar 2002 -.055 .708 .763 -.008 -.047 34 Mets
69 Davey Lopes 1982 -.056 .675 .730 -.024 -.031 37 A's
70 Jim Gantner 1989 -.056 .654 .709 -.004 -.051 36 Brewers
71 Tom Herr 1990 -.056 .672 .728 -.006 -.050 34 Phillies/Mets
72 Ryne Sandberg 1997 -.056 .711 .767 -.034 -.022 37 Cubs
73 Eric Young 2002 -.056 .707 .763 -.002 -.054 35 Brewers
74 Jim Gantner 1988 -.057 .658 .715 -.003 -.055 35 Brewers
75 Craig Biggio 2006 -.058 .727 .785 -.037 -.021 40 Astros
76 Mark McLemore 1999 -.059 .729 .788 .016 -.074 34 Rangers
77 Aaron Miles 2011 -.070 .660 .730 -.012 -.057 34 Dodgers
78 Mark Loretta 2006 -.072 .706 .778 .005 -.077 34 Red Sox
79 Jamey Carroll 2012 -.072 .660 .733 .023 -.095 37 Twins
80 Frank White 1989 -.075 .635 .709 -.019 -.056 38 Royals
81 Luis Alicea 2001 -.076 .687 .763 -.014 -.062 35 Royals
82 Cookie Rojas 1975 -.081 .626 .707 -.024 -.056 36 Royals
83 Roberto Alomar 2003 -.085 .682 .767 -.004 -.081 35 Mets/White Sox
84 Ted Sizemore 1979 -.090 .645 .736 -.019 -.071 34 Cubs/Red Sox
85 Mark Ellis 2011 -.097 .634 .731 -.037 -.060 34 A's/Rockies
86 David Eckstein 2010 -.098 .647 .745 -.011 -.087 35 Padres
87 David Eckstein 2009 -.104 .657 .761 -.016 -.088 34 Padres
88 Craig Biggio 2007 -.112 .666 .778 -.057 -.055 41 Astros
89 Frank White 1988 -.120 .595 .715 -.059 -.061 37 Royals
90 Mark McLemore 2000 -.125 .669 .794 .003 -.128 35 Mariners
91 Manny Trillo 1985 -.140 .576 .715 -.040 -.099 34 Giants
92 Ray Durham 2007 -.140 .638 .778 -.047 -.093 35 Giants
93 Mickey Morandini 2000 -.161 .635 .796 -.028 -.133 34 Phillies/Blue Jays
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
westofyou
Since 1969 only 93 guys 34 and older have had 400 PA's as 2nd basemen, only36 time sdid they have better than the league average in OPS (and most of the guys who did that are your Morgans, Kents, Griches)
But Phillips' contract pays him through his age 36 season.
I admit I wanted no part of Uggla when I read the first trade rumor. But given that he is only a little over a year older than Phillips, I do think it's very possible that he would out-OPS BP given the change in environment and ballpark.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malcontent
But Phillips' contract pays him through his age 36 season.
I admit I wanted no part of Uggla when I read the first trade rumor. But given that he is only a little over a year older than Phillips, I do think it's very possible that he would out-OPS BP given the change in environment and ballpark.
His decline will come with a glove and the ability to run.
Ugglas will come with a bucket of K's and a glove made of stone.
I prefer to move Phillips for someone alive
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malcontent
LOL. C'mon, M2. You'll never know if you don't try that first little bite.
just one thin wafer Mr. Creosote!
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Red Raindog
just one thin wafer Mr. Creosote!
Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justincredible
Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up.
Tough crowd. I'll take that as a "leans no".
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
In Uggla, you have the rare player whose name describes his performance.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
malcontent
I do think it's very possible that he would out-OPS BP given the change in environment and ballpark.
Not if he continues to K 30% of the time
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MoneyInTheBank
Not if he continues to K 30% of the time
I agree. I also don't know what effect, if any, the Lasik surgery will have going forward.
I'm intrigued by Wood, and view Marshall's return to form as very questionable....not that we've ever been given much info in that regard.
The savings of the proposed deal could obviously go a long way toward re-signing Choo. Like I said, I question whether Atlanta would even sign off on it.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
3 Way deal with the Angels and Braves (too much of a slobberknocker with too many players for anything like it to actually happen though all three teams come out OK IMO).
Atlanta Gets: Brandon Phillips and Jack Hannahan
LA Angels Get: Dan Uggla, Homer Bailey, Ryan Hanigan and Sean Marshall
Reds Get: Howie Kendrick, Chris Iannetta, Garrett Richards, Chris Nelson, Alex Wood, Taylor Lindsay
Money works. Phillps/Hanigan offset Kendrick/Iannetta with long term money freed. Bailey, Hannahan and Marshall free plenty to sign Choo, Chapman to the Rotation (crosses fingers as a skeptic), re-sign Parra and find an IF reserve or two.
Choo CF
Kendrick 2B
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Ludwick LF
Iannatta/Mesoraco C
Frazier 3B
Cozart SS
Heisey (R) OF
Paul (L) OF
Nelson (R) IF
Latos
Cueto
Cingrani
Leake
Chapman
Richards (SW)
Broxton (R)
Simon (R)
Wood (L)
Parra (L)
Lecure (R)
Hoover (CL)
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Lot of moving parts in that trade. However, I get the sense that we'll end up with Kendrick.
Re: Potential sides for Phillips/Uggla 2B entree
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rojo
Lot of moving parts in that trade. However, I get the sense that we'll end up with Kendrick.
Yeah, I agree. Whatever happens, I think there will need to be two or three moves as part of an overall retooling where money is reallocated from the pen, a couple kids are added to restock and one trade begets another to fill holes created by the previous deal. I proposed one deal that does most of the work, but I recognize that a deal like that is unlikely regardless of the names involved. If it's not a busy off-season with multiple deals, I just don't see how the team will fill it's holes and keep it's budget.
A huge jump in payroll could do it, but I just don't think a $25 to $30 Million jump is likely. Payroll is going up even if they do nothing, so adding a bat or two is going to require deals cutting in other spots IMO.