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Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
GIK and I have already received numerous private messages and emails from members who previously had access ORG posting access and no longer do, as of today. I can definitely understand your frustration with that - I really can. However, allow me to at least explain why we felt this was a necessary change for the site in the long run.
When the reputation system was implemented, the variables we were using kept users from getting promoted to the ORG too quickly because reputation "power" was fairly low, since the system was in its infancy. However, speaking in hindsight, as the system evolved and reputation scores climbed higher and higher, posters began to gain access rather easily - I can think of a few non-members that complained about the reputation system, so a few ORG members left positive reputation for them, and before you knew it, they were in the ORG. We also so this happen when a new member joined the board, made a great first post or two, and once they attained the very reachable minimum registration time and post counts, they were in.
Another problem we didn't account for is that people had completely different interpretations as to how the system should work. Some users left reputation for what they perceived to be quality posts, while others gave out positive reputation points for posts they found humorous or to their friends. Some people refused to leave negative reputation altogether. The point is that reputation points became weighted unequally in a variety of different ways, and GIK and I both agreed to do away with the system altogether.
When it became apparent that we were looking at making drastic changes, we were also in agreement that we should select a set number of existing ORG users whose posts and attitude towards others best exemplify the values that the site was founded upon. Along with input from the moderators, we trimmed the existing ORG access list down from over 450 to 240 because we felt it was a necessary step, due to the inflation that had occurred with the reputation system. That's not to say that those who no longer have access didn't deserve to be there (although I do feel that way about a handful of people). It is, however, a necessary evil in order to cut down the revised ORG member list to a number that GIK and I felt comfortable with.
I can personally say that the last 50 or so users I elminated off my revised list were very difficult decisions. Besides the two most important factors (quality of posts and how well they treat other members), some of the criteria I considered were how long the user has been registered, how often they post, if they have contributed to the site financially and if they've broken site rules in the past, and if so, how often and to what degree. Those were just some of the factors I used to help make a very difficult decision as to who should be on the ORG list. GIK and I also agreed that it would be much better to have too few initial ORG members and allow for deserving posters to get in via the new process, as opposed to having too many posters in the ORG - some of whom probably should not be there.
Finally, please do not continue to private message or email GIK, the moderators or I asking why you no longer have access. With only a handful of exceptions, there is no single reason, but it's a matter of us starting with a number that each of us felt comfortable with moving forward. All questions and concerns about the new system should be posted in this forum.
I sincerely hope that you stick around and continue to make quality posts in the Sun Deck. With ORG members no longer posting there, your posts will especially stand out. If enough people feel that you should be a part of the ORG, I'm confident that you will be there again before long.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
So what happens if this system doesn't work? Is everybody who got recieved privleges to the ORG going to lose them again, and then once again have to work our way up the chain?
For some posters, I get why you took back their privleges for the ORG, but for a poster like OBM, a poster who had over 1,000 rep points (or something like that), that makes no sense.
You don't get 1,000 rep points on accident.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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Originally Posted by
reds44
So what happens if this system doesn't work? Is everybody who got recieved privleges to the ORG going to lose them again, and then once again have to work our way up the chain?
For some posters, I get why you took back their privleges for the ORG, but for a poster like OBM, a poster who had over 1,000 rep points (or something like that), that makes no sense.
We don't get 1,000 rep points on accident.
These changes are here for good. There may be some tweaks along the way, such as the minimum number of total ORG votes required, or other variables in the voting process, but we've spent considerable time thinking this through, along with input from a large amount of valued opinions.
In any event, you don't have to worry about that happening.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boss-Hog
These changes are here for good. There may be some tweaks along the way, such as the minimum number of total ORG votes required, or other variables in the voting process, but we've spent considerable time thinking this through, along with input from a large amount of valued opinions.
In any event, you don't have to worry about that happening.
And when will we be able to apply for reinstatement? Also, this there any particular reason the Sun Deck can't have a game thread?
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
reds44
And when will we be able to apply for reinstatement? Also, this there any particular reason the Sun Deck can't have a game thread?
I'm working on the first part right now. As far as your second question, that was done for a variety of reasons, but the short answer is that we strongly felt that the existing game threads were a complete mess in their current state (due in part to both former ORG and RL posters).
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
I agree completely that the previous game threads were a mess, and it was the reason I never posted in the game threads. I would often try to sit down with the game and thread but the thread just got out of control. I personally wish you had just picked out the members of the ORG that were causing problems rather than trimming down the amount of members so drastic. Yes, I know that I did not post as often as many people but that doesn't mean I/or people similar to me weren't reading and making the occasionaly post when appropriate. I just believe that we had earned our way to the 'elite' section and because a few people bypassed the system many had to suffer. If you review my posts in which I earned reputation you will certainly see that they were quality posts and deserving of earning ORG access. We were invited into the system and then kicked out, how do you know the feeling if you are the one making the decisions for the site.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Will there be an announcement when we are able to apply for reinstatement?
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Redszone has been become a giant popularity contest/clique. I'm tired of it, I'm going to go somewhere where I can discuss Reds baseball without all the bull.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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Originally Posted by
TC81190
Redszone has been become a giant popularity contest/clique. I'm tired of it, I'm going to go somewhere where I can discuss Reds baseball without all the bull.
Please feel free.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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Originally Posted by
Boss-Hog
Please feel free.
And yourself, to burn bridges between myself and many others of Reds fans.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
I'm disappointed but I respect Boss's and GIK's decision.
And sorry to Boss and Chip - I sent both of you guys PM's asking why I was no longer available to post in ORG. I sent that before I read this thread.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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Originally Posted by
Boss-Hog
I'm working on the first part right now. As far as your second question, that was done for a variety of reasons, but the short answer is that we strongly felt that the existing game threads were a complete mess in their current state (due in part to both former ORG and RL posters).
Boss, couldn't somebody just PM you with their request and then you could make a thread for them, and if they recieve the 50 votes then you could give them access?
Or would that not work.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
I do see where I could get under some people's skin with my game thread posts, but I haven't even really posted in the game threads a lot lately. I've seen trying to avoid them due to that reason. Guess I was a little too late.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
reds44
Boss, couldn't somebody just PM you with their request and then you could make a thread for them, and if they recieve the 50 votes then you could give them access?
Or would that not work.
Yes, I could do that, but I'd rather get the system working properly instead of a short term solution such as that.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
I guess when it comes down to it, I'm not made about not being in the ORG, I'm hurt more then anything. I take pride in being a good poster and a good Reds fan. I try to input knowledge and useful posts. I know sometimes I have beaten a dead horse (Edwin), but the only reason I did it is because I am a huge Reds fan and I thought/think the Reds were/are making a huge mistake.
To see that leader of the site doesn't think I am in the top 240 posters hurts. I guess there is nothing I can do about that now except move on and try to gain access.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TC81190
And yourself, to burn bridges between myself and many others of Reds fans.
I couldn't have said it any better myself. So I'll not.
Please email me though if you do find another place to post.
If money is needed take out a few ads like every other website or maybe stand on Pete Rose way with a jar like the rest.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TC81190
Redszone has been become a giant popularity contest/clique.
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44283
So the Gang of 10 is more than a myth? :p:
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
reds44
I guess when it comes down to it, I'm not made about not being in the ORG, I'm hurt more then anything. I take pride in being a good poster and a good Reds fan. I try to input knowledge and useful posts. I know sometimes I have beaten a dead horse (Edwin), but the only reason I did it is because I am a huge Reds fan and I thought/think the Reds were/are making a huge mistake.
To see that leader of the site doesn't think I am in the top 240 posters hurts. I guess there is nothing I can do about that now except move on and try to gain access.
Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I'm stunned you aren't allowed in ORG. Same with OBM. I really don't care that much that I lost my ORG status b/c I don't post that much anyway. I read here everyday, and both you and OBM belong there. Especially considering some the ones who made the cut. However, I won't personally call anyone out.
I don't know what I would have done, but his sure as heck isn't it. It is simply put nothing more than a popularity contest.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
I was in earlier, but now I am not. Oh well, I'll live.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
When I became an ORG member I was happy that I could post anywhere on the site but I honestly wouldn't have cared either way. There have always been incredibly insightful posts in both forums and there has been a lot of great newcomers to this site in the last couple years. Not that I am one to give advice to you folks out there but if I were I would say, relax, enjoy, and don't feel persecuted because you can't post in a certain spot on a baseball message board. It's not worth being upset about and if you are spending a lot of time angry or concerned about it then you should be happy that you don't have bigger worries. There are still plenty of great discussions that will take place in the Sundeck and you can still gather a ton of Reds information from the site.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
To be honest, I was a little upset that I wasn't let in either as I have been a member since 2000 and have paid my dues in more ways than one and as far as I know, have never broken any rules.
As far as post count, counting...I guess I understand that. It's not that I don't want to post. I just thought it was best I take a break from the baseball side of the board for a while. It became a very scary place to be and anyone who was here from the start would agree. Those who weren't have nothing to compare it to. The "clique" of people that get mentioned way to often are probably many of those people who were here and would like to see peace restored. If people decide to act like children, I think it may be best that they are treated like them. It's unfortunate though that the other 70% of the board has to pay.
All & all I believe Boss & GIK have done a great job with this board over the years. It has gone through change many times and those passionate about it have stuck around and dealt with it and I am sure they will again.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
It honestly doesn't bother me too have lost ORG status, I understand why that is and I'm ok with it. Just another challenge for me in the end. What does bother me is that once you have "earned" your way there you can no longer post on the Sun Deck. I think that's the biggest tragedy here, it's got far less plusses than negatives.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Hey I just want my little picture back under my name :)
TC 81190 and 2001MUGrad, msg me if you find some place decent and I'll join you.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Guys, this probably doesn't mean much (if anything) but it really was a very tough, long and mind-racking experience creating the ORG 'start up' list. It wasn't easy and we both knew we'd be called on it. It wouldn't have been right to farm the task out to anyone - it was our job, our call and we'll take all the heat for it.
I do want to say that with this system ORG membership is not concrete. You do have the ability to gain access, which some may receive shortly, via application or nomination. It may not be perfect, it may need 'tweeks' over time, but the foundation is solid and a much better way for us to ensure RedsZone - a place Boss and I have spent I don't know how many hours on - remains the place we envisioned it to be upon its creation in April of 2000.
I also hope you all decide to remain and contribute at The Sun Deck. I really do.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boss-Hog
When it became apparent that we were looking at making drastic changes, we were also in agreement that we should select a set number of existing ORG users whose posts and attitude towards others best exemplify the values that the site was founded upon. Along with input from the moderators, we trimmed the existing ORG access list down from over 450 to 240 because we felt it was a necessary step, due to the inflation that had occurred with the reputation system. That's not to say that those who no longer have access didn't deserve to be there (although I do feel that way about a handful of people). It is, however, a necessary evil in order to cut down the revised ORG member list to a number that GIK and I felt comfortable with.
Question...if you felt the number needed to be lowered to 240 or so ORG members, is it a philosophy that you'll have to keep the number down??...I'm all for "cleaning the board up" as a rule and don't even have issue with being caught in the crossfire of the cleansing though I seem to pass the "markers of inclusion"...but I would be troubled if we ( I guess I mean the mods and leaders of RZ) didn't have the desire to include other worthy members into this group regardless of the amount of ORG members that would give us/you...I'd hate to think inclusion to the ORG is limited to a certain number of members rather than by person-by-person evaluation as to the quality of input they provide to the site...
Does that question make sense :confused:
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
To echo others, there was a cadre of folks who volunteered not to remain in ORG. Boss and GIK disagreed. That's what it comes down to. What Boss and GIK want. Since it's their forum, built from the ground up and into, frankly, a rather smashing success, that's what matters.
There are some of those that are not now in, but were, whose input and insight I have valued and will continue to value. I hope, selfishly, that you continue to post on SunDeck. I like reading the stuff. I like the opinions. If you choose to move on, I understand, but you will be missed. Still, in the end, it's Boss and GIK's call, and that is what matters.
There are plenty of places to still "interact" as it were, including the minors forum. SOSH probably is the road map, and there are good reasons why the founders went that route. For those that just missed under the "necessary evil" of the first cut that they had to make, it's not permanent and I am hoping that a bunch of you are able to share ideas in ORG soon.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
The question does make sense and is very valid. My compliments for making the question sincere and not simply a velied slam [or not so veiled slam] against Boss, GIK and co.
I may be speaking out of turn here, but I think the desire is for controlled growth of ORG. They wanted to take things back to the roots of where things started [you'll note a great deal of the members are some of the original members obviously not all, but many] and they wanted to grow it from there. I suspect many of those that were 'close' on the list will be brought back in over the next few weeks and months. That clearly doesn't mean everyone who had access will immediately regain it, but in time they will have the opportunity. Everyone has that opportunity and while controlled growth is desired, I don't think Boss and GIK will allow people to sit outside looking in, just because of a numbers game in the long term.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joseph
The question does make sense and is very valid. My compliments for making the question sincere and not simply a velied slam [or not so veiled slam] against Boss, GIK and co.
I may be speaking out of turn here, but I think the desire is for controlled growth of ORG. They wanted to take things back to the roots of where things started [you'll note a great deal of the members are some of the original members obviously not all, but many] and they wanted to grow it from there. I suspect many of those that were 'close' on the list will be brought back in over the next few weeks and months. That clearly doesn't mean everyone who had access will immediately regain it, but in time they will have the opportunity. Everyone has that opportunity and while controlled growth is desired, I don't think Boss and GIK will allow people to sit outside looking in, just because of a numbers game in the long term.
That's a pretty accurate summation. You're certainly not speaking out of turn - thanks for posting that.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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When I became an ORG member I was happy that I could post anywhere on the site but I honestly wouldn't have cared either way. There have always been incredibly insightful posts in both forums and there has been a lot of great newcomers to this site in the last couple years.
Yeah. I'm coming from the other side. Rightly or wrongly I retained org status. FWIW, this morning there were several interesting posts on the sundeck that I wanted to weigh in with my opinion. Can't do it. There was nothing in the ORG that I felt I could contribute to. (There is a really fine thread about Freel's baserunning. I just don't have anything to add to it)
I really don't like having part of the site cut off. The ability to interact with posters tells me a great deal about them. Without the ability to do that, I'm not sure how meaningful any vote will be.
That sounds...jerkier than I mean for it to. The quality of discourse here is great. I don't think there is anyplace reds focused on the net that has better discussion. I understand a moderator has to do what a moderator has to do.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
I've also been "Encarnacioned" to the Sun Deck which greatly aggravates me. I don't recall ever breaking any rules and I had a pretty good reputation, from what I recall.
I even made a donation to the site this year and was planning to do so annually.
This just seems capricious and arbitrary. I have not yet decided if I will stick around.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boss-Hog
I'm working on the first part right now. As far as your second question, that was done for a variety of reasons, but the short answer is that we strongly felt that the existing game threads were a complete mess in their current state (due in part to both former ORG and RL posters).
Are you really saying you took away game thread priveleges for all non-ORGs because some of us couldn't behave in an organized way in the game threads?
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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Originally Posted by
dfs
Yeah. I'm coming from the other side. Rightly or wrongly I retained org status. FWIW, this morning there were several interesting posts on the sundeck that I wanted to weigh in with my opinion. Can't do it.
That's another piece of this I don't get. What did the ORGers do to lose SunDeck privileges??? When I compare this to other successful discussion forums, e.g. BengalZone, the classism and restriction of access seems unnecessary. Other forums use other approaches to policing behavior.
Just my opinion. (Is that still okay?)
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dfs
Yeah. I'm coming from the other side. Rightly or wrongly I retained org status. FWIW, this morning there were several interesting posts on the sundeck that I wanted to weigh in with my opinion. Can't do it. There was nothing in the ORG that I felt I could contribute to. (There is a really fine thread about Freel's baserunning. I just don't have anything to add to it)
I really don't like having part of the site cut off. The ability to interact with posters tells me a great deal about them. Without the ability to do that, I'm not sure how meaningful any vote will be.
That sounds...jerkier than I mean for it to. The quality of discourse here is great. I don't think there is anyplace reds focused on the net that has better discussion. I understand a moderator has to do what a moderator has to do.
I agree 100%, How will any of us earn the vote of an org member if we can't conversate in the Sundeck. They can pop in and read our posts, but how many ORG members will even visit the sundeck when they can't post there. I can remember many times I have clicked on a thread and then realized it was ORG and couldn't post. It's frustrating when you have something to say but can't, and I eventually stopped reading anything in ORG. Maybe I'm wrong but If ORG members can't post in the Sundeck, I'd say I have a better chance getting voted in by MLB Veteran's Committee.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
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Originally Posted by
TheWalls
That's another piece of this I don't get. What did the ORGers do to lose SunDeck privileges???
Just my opinion. (Is that still okay?)
Totally agree.
ORG members have less than they did before. I do consider it a privilege to be able to talk baseball with everyone on the board... can't do that anymore.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
I agree 100%, How will any of us earn the vote of an org member if we can't conversate in the Sundeck. They can pop in and read our posts, but how many ORG members will even visit the sundeck when they can't post there.
Before I vote, I do a search for the last 500 posts made by the poster and I look through a large sample of them. Comments from the voting thus far indicate that most of the ORGers are doing that, too.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boss-Hog
Please feel free.
Little brains are not allowed.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeamBoone
Totally agree.
ORG members have less than they did before. I do consider it a privilege to be able to talk baseball with everyone on the board... can't do that anymore.
But now you don't have to even act as if we "little brains" exist. We don't in your new world.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peterose00
But now you don't have to even act as if we "little brains" exist , have an opinion worth offering, that we can string sentances together or that we actually post meaningfull replies that simply put aren't good enough for you. We don't in your new sophisdecayed. world.
Edited that for you so that it sums up my idea's as well.
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBigLebowski
I've also been "Encarnacioned" to the Sun Deck which greatly aggravates me. I don't recall ever breaking any rules and I had a pretty good reputation, from what I recall.
I even made a donation to the site this year and was planning to do so annually.
This just seems capricious and arbitrary. I have not yet decided if I will stick around.
Been donating since I've been here :( Hopefully this is a trial period
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Re: Those Who Lost Old Red Guard Access
Boss and GIK could easily just made this a money maker, putting ads between each post, merchandise affiliations, donation requests every weekend.
But they dont. They run an honest to God forum meant to stimulate quality Reds discussion. Thats worth the time here. People behind it want it to be more than $$$.