Stupid managerial decision in my opinion.
Jerry Narron has had better weeks.
As was mentioned over the in game thread, even if your bullpen is a black-hole of suckyness it doesn't make any sense to ride your two best horses so hard that they (potenally) get winded in the 2nd half or a strech run.
It's more of an indictment of the bullpen that he didn't go to it last night, however, that's an issue for The Kriv to work out.
Narron has left Harang in the game too long several times this season. It cost the Reds the game last night.
According to the Marc Lancaster blog they are going to give him an extra day's rest coming out of the break. Obviously, high pitch counts remain a concern. However, when you have someone pitching well and with our bullpen, you certainly do have to win games, especially when you've lost six of seven.
Narron's management of the pitching staff has reached obsessive/compulsive status.
Yes..the bullpen is not good (yes, it's bad)...but the bullpen ERA is NOT infinity. Its 5.14. That's the same as Milton's and better than whoever the worst starter has been (Claussen, Williams, Mays).
And what's the ERA of our "better'' pitchers (Ramirez, Harang, Arroyo) in the middle innings or when the begin to tire? Forget about Mays and company...
But Narron insists in making our starters go 6, 7 or 8 even when they've lost it...confident that the offense will get him out of the hole they eventually create.
They hit for themselves in high leverage situations, behind in the score, etc.
When Narron DOES go to the bully...he sets them up to fail, using recently injured pitchers in tough situations, LOOGYs against righties, old guys no matter what...etc.
The lack of work doesn't help the bully either. Instead of pitching 2 or 3 times a week, some of the guys (Belisle?) pitch once every two or three weeks. No one can be sharp that way.
Last night was the last straw. There was NO justification for sending Harang out in the eighth down by two. There was a 5% chance of winning at that point. You don't mess with meal tickets like Harang, with such long odds. It's like undergoing life threatening surgery to whiten your teeth.
I'm officially now in the FIRE NARRON camp.
not that i'm for narron or anything, but back in the golden era, didn't they pitch that much and still be fine for the rest of the season?
obviously he wouldn't have left aaron in without his consent. and if aaron thought he could pitch, then he's gunna pitch.
Yes, that happened regularly back in the day and that was with four-man pitching rotations.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettochild
Pitch count alone isn't enough to make a determination.
The manager and pitching coach have to be watching to see if there's any noticable change in mechanics, if he's laboring harder, falling out of form.
Also, some innings put more stress on a pitcher than others, as would any inning with over 25 pitches, or innings with tough at bats where the pitcher had to really bear down.
It's not just the pitch count, it's other things as well.
I can't imamgine that anyone was calling for Harang to be pulled with a shut out going in the 7th last night. After he gave up the 2 run HR, the game was lost. Posters would have hung Narron if he had pulled Harang before the HR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpup
Yes they did. And after a few years they would come down with a sore shoulder or a sore elbow and could not pitch any more. Back then they did not know they tore their rotator cuff or tore a tendon in their elbow. Aaron is still a young pitcher. 135 pitches may not have an effect on him on his next start or the start after that or in September. But it may give him problems down the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettochild
The last person a manager wants to ask on whether a pitcher should stay in the game is the pitcher. Of course he is going to want to stay in. Even if he has nothing left he is going to lie about it to the manager so he can stay in there. I completely understand why Narron did what he did. I certainly do not think that he would have left him in there if he would have had even one pitcher down there who he trusted to get Francour. Leaving him in after that was just Narron not wanting a 3 run deficit to become a 5, 6, 7 run deficit.
Harang was the one wanting to stay in, said he was fine.
I believe that the stat shown on the Reds' TV broadcast was that the Reds' bullpen had not had consecutive scoreless outings since May 5 and 6.
Don't get your hopes upQuote:
Originally Posted by oneupper