Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
It's one of the few (only?) aspects of baseball strategy that Narron appears to have the capacity to understand. Accordingly, it drives nearly every decision he makes, whether the result makes any sense or not, from lineup construction to, i.e., bringing in a struggling Mike Stanton to pitch to a left handed hitter in a crucial situation.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Originally Posted by
reds44
You summed it up pretty well. However, as you hinted too, Narron holds to it way to much. Tonight's a perfect example. He splits up Griffey and Dunn with Conine. Griffey and Dunn are obviously better hitters, but he does it anyway.
There's advantages to splitting up the lefites, but when you put a guy like Conine between them it does more hurt then harm.
The platoon effect is a real one. For their careers, Griffey and Dunn both have OPS's that are roughly 10% lower against lefties than righties. Hamilton has yet to prove he can hit major league lefties. So the notion of splitting your lefties up is a reasonable one and it goes deeper than just worrying about a late inning LOOGY. Any lefty would have an advantage with those three guys in a row and a bonified LOOGY would have a much better chance of shutting the Reds down in a late inning, high leverage situation.
That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).
Also, Hamilton really has no business in the 3 thru 5 slots. I might consider him in the 2 hole because he makes contact and has speed but even then, I'm not sure he can get on base enough. There are currently 8 Reds position players with at least 90 at bats who see more pitches per PA than Hamilton so despite the belief that he is patient and sees alot of pitches, that's not even an argument for him as a #2 hitter. Until he proves himself, Hamilton really should be no higher than #6 IMHO....
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
To me there is no advantage. If you can hit, you can hit and it makes no sense to put a .240 hitter in between your power hitters.
Besides, you still have to hit against the same pitcher. So what if we have lefties hitting 3, 4, and 5 or 3, 5, and 7.
I think managers think too much.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Originally Posted by
Driver62
I think managers think too much.
The bad ones do anyway.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
It inserts outs between your best hitters?
;)
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Originally Posted by
noskill27
Well said... I'd like to add that I've always found it funny that managers worry about that one time when the other manager brings in a lefty as opposed to the other 2 or 3 ABs that those hitters have...
That's a really good point too. Why worry about the seventh inning when you're wasting ABs in the first through the sixth?
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
I agree with Narron's thinking 'cause most teams do have a LH specialist in the pen. We've all seen them mow down the likes of Dunn and Griffey in late inning situations. Now the issue of whether he has a competent RH hitter to put in there gets back to the limited pieces he has to work with. I thought Phillips did pretty well in the cleanup hole even though that's not something we want to see for 162 games.
My problems with Narron are more along the lines of asking players to do things they don't do well like bunting. There are very few decent bunters on this team and until that changes, asking them to bunt is a low percentage call. I also have to hold the manager accountable for a team playing like it doesn't care.
It's poor play from guys like EE, Mike Stanton and Todd Coffey that make Narron's managerial moves look bad rather than vice versa.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Originally Posted by
jojo
That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).
Right. In fact, the Reds haven't had a quality RH bat that you could feel comfortable inserting in the 3 or 4 spot for quite some time. Greg Vaughn was really the last one.
E_E *might* become a more consistent offensive threat, but his numbers last year alone don't really warrant that. Looking down into the minors, neither Bruce or Votto are right-handed batters. Beyond them, the pickings get pretty slim.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Originally Posted by
Sea Ray
It's poor play from guys like EE, Mike Stanton and Todd Coffey that make Narron's managerial moves look bad rather than vice versa.
I'll agree that the team's play hasn't helped make Narron look any better. But there is never, ever an excuse for batting the likes of Hatteberg or Conine in the 3 or 4 spot. If the question comes down to batting Junior and Dunn back-to-back, or watching Jeff Conine bat cleanup, that decision should be a no-brainer.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
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Originally Posted by
registerthis
If the question comes down to batting Junior and Dunn back-to-back, or watching Jeff Conine bat cleanup, that decision should be a no-brainer.
From the cleanup spot:
Junior - .863 OPS in 49 plate appearances
Conine - .642 OPS in 50 plate appearances
Dunn has only had 4 plate appearances (1 game) in the cleanup spot. He's 1-3 with a walk and a homerun.
You are correct. It should be a no-brainer.
Re: Can anyone tell me the advantage of breaking up the lefty's in the lineup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jojo
The platoon effect is a real one. For their careers, Griffey and Dunn both have OPS's that are roughly 10% lower against lefties than righties. Hamilton has yet to prove he can hit major league lefties. So the notion of splitting your lefties up is a reasonable one and it goes deeper than just worrying about a late inning LOOGY. Any lefty would have an advantage with those three guys in a row and a bonified LOOGY would have a much better chance of shutting the Reds down in a late inning, high leverage situation.
That being said though, as pointed out earlier, this team really doesn't have a quality right-handed bat that could break up Griffey and Dunn. The closest thing they have is EE's potential (and really that's as roughly a league average thirdbaseman).
Also, Hamilton really has no business in the 3 thru 5 slots. I might consider him in the 2 hole because he makes contact and has speed but even then, I'm not sure he can get on base enough. There are currently 8 Reds position players with at least 90 at bats who see more pitches per PA than Hamilton so despite the belief that he is patient and sees alot of pitches, that's not even an argument for him as a #2 hitter. Until he proves himself, Hamilton really should be no higher than #6 IMHO....
Well said.