Originally Posted by Redman15 (Post 1617361)

Originally Posted by sweetsport06 (Post 1618175)

I would say the impressiveness of Stubbs showing up on the charts is somewhat overvalued. The part moreso impressive is has yet to show up in the Homerun category. The way i see it one of the various reasons he struggled so much from the get-go was the fact he was drafted as a future '5' tool guy. The thing is his power was only consistent when he approached the plate as a power hitter, which in turn drastically affected his K rate, lower his walks as he swung at everything, and killed his average. Having been in the minors long enough i think he's either grown more careless as the the reds expectations of him and grown into his own player, or the reds in fact have lowered there expectations on him easing of some of his pressure to achieve that 30/30 player type status. Im sure i drastically overexlained a quite simple explanation but im really thinking of thim as that Corey Patterson type player. not even close. but regardless lets just hope he keeps it up.

Originally Posted by sweetsport06 (Post 1618504)

where should i begin. first off starting in 2006 up to 2008 minor league seasons stubbs K/BB ratio was 2:1, 2.1:1, and 2.5:1. basically his strikeout rate has been on the rise the past three seasons while his walks have dropped, not at any drastic rate; but they've dropped.

Originally Posted by sweetsport06 (Post 1618604)

on the contrary your just a sophistical arguer. going on about some facts or statistics completely inane to my original points doesnt make you any smarter. ive proven my point so theres nothing else to say. 9,526 posts dont make you any more perspicacious to the reds than myself.

Originally Posted by sweetsport06 (Post 1618613)

i dont know why you can just 'assume' drew stubbs could hit a homer tonight. took him long enough to get his first one. id say 92 ABs gives a pretty good idea of there performance for that season. but you argued me wrong. so okay it doesnt. but that further proves what i believe in his .348 average an 13-13SB all being flaws. your right it'll even itself out soon enough.

Originally Posted by dougdirt (Post 1618521)

In 2006 Stubbs strikeout % was 25.4, in 2007 it was 24.7 and this year its 25.5. His strikeout rate is essentially the exact same at the three levels he has played at. His walk rate over the same time has been 12.7%, 12% and 10.4%. His wak rate has slowed down just ever so slightly.


Yeah, and if he hits a HR tonight his HR rate in 2008 goes to roughly 1 per 48 AB's. Its way to early to be making HR per AB rates. Lets also take into account the leagues. So while I "can't rebuke facts" I will argue that they certainly aren't enough data available to make much of it. On the flip side, his XBH rate has gone up every year. He had an XBH% of 30.1%, 34.3% and 40.6% at each stop.


Well aside from the fact that fielding % if a horrible stat that tells me next to nothing about a players actual defensive ability. As for stolen base %, do I need to remind you that Stubbs was playing with turf toe last year and hamstring issues in 2006? Dudes healthy this year and we are seeing it on the basepaths as he is 13 for 13 early on and on pace for 65-70 steals this year.



Except thats not close to true. Heisey doesn't have as much power. His isolated power numbers last year in Dayton were lower than Stubbs and his isolated power numbers this year in Sarasota are much lower than Stubbs. He does strikeout less. He may have better SB success in the past when Stubbs was hurt, but he isn't the stolen base threat that a healthy Drew Stubbs is. Heisey is 3 for 4 this year. Stubbs is 13 for 13 and has the most steals in the minors without being caught. Its not really close. As for the defense, Stubbs is in a different class than Heisey is out in CF.

Feel free to continue if you want, but the only thing you were right on was that Heisey strikes out less.