Originally Posted by paintmered (Post 1988697)

If you had a problem with what I did, you should have sent me a PM like I said in the closed thread. But no, you need to continue your grandstanding.

The thread went off topic and was filled with inappropriate comments and posts when it was on topic. Of course it should have been closed, and it should have been closed sooner than it was.

If you have more that you need to say on the topic of sexism, start a new thread (one that is not attached to the Steve Phillips story or anyone involved with it).

Originally Posted by paxTV (Post 1988713)

I think everyone should take a deep breath and relax. No one is out to delete your post and no one is out to take away your mod powers. In my opinion, we should be able to talk without anyone on either side getting hot under the collar or taking great offense.

It's clear that the people with the power to close threads/delete posts aren't always the ones with the biggest sense of humor. And I think that is ok. As long as we are all respectful to each other. Mods do an excellent 100% grade A job on dealing with the very loud, combative posters who challenge authority and make their opinions heard, but sometimes, and it's understandable why, they miss a particular brand of name calling. The best example of this is in the Steve Phillips thread when certain posters made multiple posts condemning other posters and making sweeping character judgments that, IMO, shouldn't be made. Even if a poster makes a sexist comment, I don't think other posters should be allowed to publicly label them a sexist person or cast moral judgments on them. But sometimes they are allowed to do this without any consequence. IMO, it should be the mods job to call out and deal with these posters in private. Also if a poster has a very serious problem with the tone or content of another post they should use the "report post" function rather than replying and calling that person a bigot/sexist/casting a moral judgment. To me the sexist/inappropriate comments are the first step to a good thread being unfortunately closed, and the replies making moral/character judgments are the second step.

I'd love to see Redszone move in the direction Boss-Hog mentioned of deleting posts over closing threads, and I'd also like to see less tolerance for giant character judgments from any and all parties.

I hope my point comes across without causing any offense.

:)

Originally Posted by jojo (Post 1988729)

Just out of curiosity, how does someone with 4 posts develop such a detailed opinion of redszone posting history? You've commented on redszone posting behavior in several of your posts.

I can't help myself but ask (again this is a sincere question)...

BTW, I don't think the mods are being defensive. They are doing their job and they are right that questioning their moderation really should be done via PM IMHO.

There is a way that questions about procedure can be openly discussed-there are several threads in the archives where just that has been done in great detail. Questioning a specific action in a public fashion probably is rarely appropriate IMHO. I approach this issue with an obvious bias-I think we're extremely lucky to have the moderation that we have on redszone as I think without it, the quality of discussion we get to enjoy simply wouldn't be possible.

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf (Post 1988722)

I'm not attacking you nor your action. In fact, I'm not even saying I necessarily disagree with it. I'm just saying that in my personal opinion, it generally makes more sense to modify individual posts it they're inappropriate as opposed to closing an entire thread. I'm not 'grandstanding', and it's unfair that you would accuse me of that.

Besides, what good would a PM have done? I started this thread in an effort to improve the site--not to have a personal discussion with you.

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp (Post 1988742)

I have no overall complaints of the moderation of this site, so this is more of a philosophical response.

However, I'm not sure why such a thread is determined that it "should be closed." In my opinion, any thread that contains reasonable discussion by adults, even if the opinions represented might be somewhat reprehensible, should be left alone. If it's not a bunch of name-calling, personal attacks or filled with questionable language, why does such a topic need closed anyhow?

Again, overall this is no indictment of any moderator or administrator. I just don't get the rush to close a controversial thread. I didn't participate in that particular thread, as I personally had nothing to add. But while I didn't care for some of the particular opinions, it was quite honestly an adult thread with rational discussion.

Some of the opinions might be of poor taste as to how people are viewed, but moderating this forum shouldn't be about moderating personalities but rather moderating content that violates forum rules. I realize the catch-all "moderators reserve the right to delete any post at any time." But I don't understand what was so objectionable about the content in that thread. It certainly had some underlying statements as to how people might view/treat women in real life, but I tend to think it's too easy to take one's personal opinion at how people should be treated and apply that to a discussion topic. I don't agree with the stated opinions by some of the posters in that thread. But it certainly was not a thread that was causing a great deal of undo commotion.

Just my opinion. Again, I realize moderators are volunteers, and I think this forum is a good one. In that case, I tend to think it was a flex of muscle. Again, just an opinion.

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 (Post 1988746)

I have a feeling that the answer to your philosophical question is why there is a Peanut Gallery.

Originally Posted by paintmered (Post 1988735)

What do you have to say that hasn't been said in the recent thread on the exact same topic? To point out that I closed another thread?

And I actually agree with you on deleting posts vs. closing threads. All of the mods do. But we also have thresholds where we consider threads to be beyond rehabilitation and I considered the thread yesterday to exceed that threshold.

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp (Post 1988752)

Sure, if we're talking about politics or religion. But this topic wasn't about either of those.

Originally Posted by jojo (Post 1988729)

BTW, I don't think the mods are being defensive. They are doing their job and they are right that questioning their moderation really should be done via PM IMHO (actually Boss has indicated the mechanism that we all should use when addressing a specific decision is that the individual involved should PM the mod).

There is a way that questions about procedure can be openly discussed-there are several threads in the archives where just that has been done in great detail (presumably you've already spent a great deal of time reading the archives so maybe you've seen a few such threads?). Questioning a specific action in a public fashion probably is rarely appropriate IMHO. I approach this issue with an obvious bias-I think we're extremely lucky to have the moderation that we have on redszone as I think without it, the quality of discussion we get to enjoy simply wouldn't be possible. In other words, I think they (the mods) should enjoy a certain respect in the way we question their decisions.

Originally Posted by paintmered (Post 1988732)

All I ask is that we aren't put on public trial every time one of us takes an action. The job is hard enough as it is and the pay stinks. That's the reason I requested that people PM me instead. I'm actually quite willing to engage in discussion regarding any of my moderating and I have done so with many posters through the years.

Originally Posted by paintmered (Post 1988735)

And I actually agree with you on deleting posts vs. closing threads. All of the mods do. But we also have thresholds where we consider threads to be beyond rehabilitation and I considered the thread yesterday to exceed that threshold.

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf (Post 1988767)

I'm surprised to hear you say that all of the mods agree with me on the topic because I've seen a lot of threads become locked prematurely--by my estimation, of course. But again, it's not a criticism. When I bring up this topic, I have nothing but the site's best interest in mind. I think it would be great if there were more of a defined line in the guidelines, possibly something similar or identical to what Brutus the Pimp is saying.

Originally Posted by redsfandan (Post 1988798)

Sometimes it's felt to me like a mod/mods was/were being defensive but since you've been around longer than I have I'll just have to take your word for it.

I don't see this as about a specific deletion/closing/etc. I see it in a broader sense of simply asking to discuss when any of those actions are really necessary.

Originally Posted by jojo (Post 1988820)

Again this is just "opinion by jojo" so the mods may define it differently (and it's their definition that we should adhere to) but the issue with this thread is that it references a specific mod decision as a spring board for "discussion". Specific actions should be discussed in private with the mod and such discussion shouldn't spill over to general discussion. This has been addressed by both Boss and paintmered recently.