Bill Bray and Wilson Valdez non-tendered
 

According to Lance McAlister:

https://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister/s...45826398601218

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

So who won "the trade".

The can of worms is opened.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

I wonder if there's any chance he comes back with a minor league deal or if he's pretty much guaranteed a major league contract somewhere.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

He'll get a big league job somewhere. Lefty with recent success.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

No one. Both teams lost.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

Reds lost by not getting a good return on players their fans overrated

Washington lost by not getting excess value from players the Reds fans overrated

The real loser were Reds fans, because it was just more suck, on top of already existing suck.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

I'll always remember him spiking the pitchout to the backstop, the runner on third coming home, Bray not noticing and sauntering slowly towards the plate, realizing what was happening just before the throw from Hanigan clocked him in the face... embarrassing moment that one.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

:thumbup:

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

In the end, nobody won it. But the Reds still could have and should have gotten more at the time.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

The REDS and it is not even close. Just for the fact that they unloaded two players that made way more money than they deserved. One of these players was so bad that they released him (also the worst fielding SS in 2007). I do not care what the REDS got back... they unloaded two players who were not that good and frankly did not deserve to be in the starting lineup for most MLB teams despite getting starting-8 type of money.

OPS+
* Kearns: 113 w/ REDS ; 92 w/ NATS
* Lopez: 97 w/ REDS ; 76 w/ NATS

MONEY!
* Kearns in Wash.: 2007 = $3.5 mill, 2008 = $5.0 mill, 2009 = $8.0 mill
* Lopez in Wash.: 2007 = $3.9 mill, 2008 = $4.9 mill (released 7-31-2008!)

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

:lol:

In terms of pure production, the Nats won easily.

I guess some people will claim the Reds won because they save money, but the Reds could've accomplished the same thing by nontendering Kearns and Lopez.
In the end, the Reds got 174 IP out of Bray.. about 80 IP of those (my estimate) were good. The remaining were mediocre or bad. Only accumulated 1.8 WAR over his 6 year stay here.

I remember when people were clinging to Daryl Thompson being the savior of the trade. I guess there will be a new rationalization now to justify the Reds winning this.

The biggest impact was that the 2007 team which was in pseudo-contention collapsed after the "Trade"
Clayton, Maj, and Bray (along with Freel and maybe Deno in the OF after the trade) contributed a lot to the collapse.

Seems like an obvious loss for the Reds to me.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

In my eyes, the Reds "won" the trade by not wasting money on Kearns, Lopez, and Wagner. In the meantime, they got some value out of Bray, particularly a couple a years ago when they won the division.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

In my eyes, Jim Bowden lost. :thumbup:

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

Put me in the "I don't care" since the deal is too far removed to have any current impact and everyone involved career's are either dead or on life support. Also, the folks making the deal no longer have any decision making capacity with the Reds. The amount of analysis performed on this trade just goes to show how slim the pickings were in "exciting" transactions of that time period.

Re: Bill Bray non-tendered
 

Or of this offseason so far (thought not meant as a complaint - just a statement that not much has happened for the Reds yet)