[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by MartyFan

I get what you are saying but every organization has a foundation that it has to build on...a culture it has to establish and the Reds STILL need to do that.

I think the team has some good talent that has underperformed DRASTICALLY this year...A good example of a good leader is how Greg Vaughn helped a pretty average team in 1999 over perform...he did that by threatening to beat down anyone who slacked...was he liked by everyone? Nope but he was able to motivate the team that allowed Mack to say "I just let them go out there and play"..that's the only example I can come up with in recent Reds history.

MF, I think the question is not whether or not culture/leadership is important. Let's assume it is for the sake of discussion. The question is whether Dunn's presence somehow prevented the Reds from having said culture. I think it's difficult to make the case that Dunn is at fault for the Reds attitude. Rather, I think the attitude is a direct result of a dearth of talent. Losing begets losing. I don't disagree that the Reds culture left a lot to be desired. But I don't see many teams with the poor talent level the Reds have run out there the last 8 years with the type of culture being described. It's tough to adopt a position where losing is unacceptable when the deck is constantly stacked against you.

I suppose one could argue that no amount of talent is worth the money Dunn would require if it does not also come with the type of leadership abilities you've described. However, I imagine that on a team in the hunt, Dunn's attitude and role in the clubhouse will be cast in a very different light. It would have been very interesting to see how Dunn would have been received had he been surrounded with more talent in Red.