Thread: Cliff Lee
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:18 PM   #174
TheNext44
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Re: Cliff Lee

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo View Post
But isn't Pedro actually a perfect example for the argument that BABIP isn't something even a dominating pitcher can consistently influence?

1999 was perhaps his most dominating season and his BABIP was .343. The next season it was .253. The season after that it was .322. If BABIP is something a pitcher has a great deal of control over, why was Pedro apparently so miserable at controlling his during his peak years?

An unfounded conclusion from data? The conclusion is that when looking for an ability to control BABIP, only a handful of historical outliers can be found and even then, the affect they seemingly wielded upon their BABIP was rather small (i.e. their ERA was roughly .3 lower than would be predicted). Thus whatever effect an average pitcher has on BABIP isn't large enough to overcome randomness. Can pitchers effect their BABIP? Intuitively, they probably do have some effect-it just isn't a big effect. So language like "Unfounded conclusion from data by guys who have no background in logic." really needs to be backed by some solid logic/data for the narrative to have any traction IMHO.

Code:
Season	K/9	BB/9	BABIP	LOB%	ERA	FIP
Career	10.04	2.42	0.291	75.90%	2.93	2.91
1992	9	1.13	0.292	71.40%	2.25	1.16
1993	10.01	4.79	0.28	79.20%	2.61	3.08
1994	8.83	2.8	0.281	72.60%	3.42	3.32
1995	8.04	3.05	0.268	75.90%	3.51	3.9
1996	9.22	2.91	0.304	68.80%	3.7	3.27
1997	11.37	2.5	0.274	79.90%	1.9	2.39
1998	9.67	2.58	0.284	79.90%	2.89	3.4
1999	13.2	1.56	0.343	77.60%	2.07	1.39
2000	11.78	1.33	0.253	86.60%	1.74	2.17
2001	12.57	1.93	0.322	75.90%	2.39	1.61
2002	10.79	1.81	0.288	75.80%	2.26	2.24
2003	9.93	2.27	0.304	78.20%	2.22	2.21
2004	9.41	2.53	0.303	73.20%	3.9	3.58
2005	8.63	1.95	0.257	76.90%	2.82	2.95
2006	9.29	2.65	0.273	65.20%	4.48	4.05
2007	10.29	2.25	0.413	73.80%	2.57	1.92
2008	7.18	3.63	0.329	71.10%	5.61	5.18
As I said, I am done with this. The only way to discuss this further is to go deep into analytic philosophy and advanced logic. No one wants that. I know I don't.

So again, just let me say that what you have done is provide one logical explanation for the data. But it is invalid for anyone to conclude that this is the only or even the best, or even one of the best explanations for the data.
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