Originally Posted by 757690
BAPIP doesn't apply to relievers the same way as it does to starters. Relievers have been shown to be able to maintain low BABIP over many seasons, even whole careers.
Relievers and starters should not be treated the same way via stats. Even though they are both pitchers, what they do is very different, and nets different results statistically.
Relievers face only a handful of batters a game and can throw as hard as they want the entire time. Starters have to face the same lineup multiple times each game, and must pace themselves in terms of velocity and pitch selection. Relievers also usually come in during high leverage situations, causing them to pitch differently than when starting an inning clean and/or a big lead.
All of this and more leads to different stats and changes the importance of each stat for reliever and starters. You are using starter stats to talk about Ondusek, and they aren't as relevant for him since he's a reliever.
A whole lot to disagree with there. Sure, some great relievers in history have had low BABIP's in the career. Rivera and Hoffman come to mind. However, its beyond unfair to put Logan in that group.
Across MLB, there is little to support that relievers do a better job of controlling BABIP than starters. Currently, starters in the MLB have a .294 BABIP against, while relievers have .290.
Whether or not a pitcher is pitching 1 inning or 7 innings, you still want the same things: High K rate, low walk rate, low HR rate. The fact that Logan doesn't K enough guys, and walks too many guys doesn't make it OK just because he's a reliever and he's had some BABIP luck. I'd find it very, very, very difficult to argue that Logan is such a good pitcher that he's able to control his BABIP, yet he's not good enough to strike guys out, and not good enough to prevent from walking them.
Sure, some pitchers' "stuff" is better suited for the bullpen than the rotation, and obviously relievers pitch differently that starters. That doesn't mean that FIP and xFIP are any less valuable for a reliever than it is a starter. It certainly is a better predictor of talent and future success than ERA is.