Originally Posted by M2
So the Jays saved money and the Reds won divisions. I'd rather be the team that spent the money and won.
And it wasn't just leadership the Reds got from Rolen. It got an essential bat early in the deal and a great glove throughout the deal. In 2009 and 2010 Scott Rolen vastly outproduced Edwin Encarnacion. If you're a WAR fan (and I'm not) Rolen had more value in 2011 as well. Encarnacion is entirely a figment of his 2012 season. You're trying to make it sound like the Reds didn't get the better of this deal from a pure production standpoint for 2+ seasons, when they most certainly did. What happened in 2012 with Encarnacion is irrelevant to the Reds. He had been cut loose twice prior to that. Had no trade value to speak of prior to being cut loose. And would have had no role on the 2012 Reds had he (improbably) stayed around.
Rolen's 2012 even had more relevant value to the Reds since no one in their right mind would have strapped a glove to Encarnacion's left hand and sent him out to play 3B for any significant period of time.
By that logic you could say any of the other moves the Reds made were brilliant as well. The Reds won so every move must have been perfect right?
When we examine it deeply we can see that Rolen had very little to do with the Reds success in 2012. Rolen's play on the field in 2012 was not good, even when he wasn't hurt.
The Reds made both good and bad moves during the build-up to 2012. The Reds were losers in 2011, so does that mean the Rolen trade was a bad deal since the team was bad? The Reds have gone through good times and bad times during Rolen's tenure, so if you want to give him all the credit for the good times you should blame him for the bad ones too.
Rolen has been a part time player for a long time, partly due to injury and partly due to age. He is surrounded with a full cast of very good young players, many of whom were here prior to Jocketty's arrival. Rolen arrived at a time when the young Reds team was on the brink of success. It is a mistake to believe the winning started because Rolen came to town. Claiming Rolen is a major reason why the Reds have a good team this year just doesn't add up.
When weighing the trade we can see that Encarnacion's hitting stats in Toronto have been superior to Rolen's in Cincinnati -- advantage Jays. Rolen played great defense -- advantage Reds. Rolen provided great leadership -- advantage Reds. Rolen cost a lot more money than EE that could have been spent elsewhere -- disadvantage Reds. It is clearly a wash in my opinion. Going forward the Blue Jays' relationship with Encarnacion is going to continue paying dividends, whereas it looks like Rolen is finished helping the Reds.