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Old 01-14-2013, 08:58 PM   #10
RedsManRick
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Re: Cleaning Up Cooperstown

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
He did have the most wins of the 80's and I think he suffered a bit from adjusting to the DH. I'm not an advocate of him being in the HOF but I think some of those things have to be taken into account when talking about Morris.

As Joe Posnanski has pointed out, the players from the 80's are vastly under represented in the HOF.
Perhaps. Though if that were truly people's argument for Morris, they'd be arguing for Dave Steib. I think the increase in support for Morris has been, in large part, a reaction to the prevalence of both steroids and sabermetrics, a HOF version of "back in my day..."

That said, I'd agree with the 50% threshold. I'm a big hall guy. The telling of history is rarely made worse by providing a broader perspective.

For fun, I looked at the top 10 fWAR pitchers of the 1980's. Enjoy! (Morris' win total was definitely impressive. But then again, he was 1st in IP, 1st in decisions and 3rd in losses.
Code:
#	Name			GS	IP	W	L	K%	BB%	HR/9	ERA	FIP	WAR	ERA-	CyTop5 (win)	AL Years
1	Nolan Ryan		314	2094.0	122	104	24.9%	10.3%	0.55	3.14	2.83	46.2	90	3		1 of 10 (Rangers)
2	Bert Blyleven		288	2078.1	123	103	17.2%	 6.5%	0.92	3.64	3.56	42.1	88	4		9 of 10 (Indians, Twins)
3	Dave Stieb		331	2328.2	140	109	14.3%	 8.6%	0.71	3.32	3.78	41.5   	80	1      	       10 of 10 (Blue Jays)
4	Roger Clemens		174	1284.2	95	45	23.2%	 7.1%	0.67	3.06	2.79	39.8	72	2 (2)		6 of  6 (Red Sox)
5	Fernando Valenzuela	287	2144.2	128	103	18.4%	 9.4%	0.56	3.19	3.21	37.3    91	4 (1)		0 of 10
6	Steve Carlton		240	1732.1	104	84	20.0%	 8.7%	0.70	3.48	3.19	37.2	91	3 (2)		2 of  9 (White Sox, Indians, Twins)
7	Jack Morris		332	2443.2	162	119	16.0%	 8.4%	0.97	3.66	3.90	36.2   	91	4              10 of 10 (Tigers)
8	Dwight Gooden		175	1291.0	100	39	22.4%	 7.3%	0.45	2.64	2.53	34.5	75	4 (1)		0 of 10
9	Frank Viola		271	1858.0	117	98	16.5%	 7.0%	1.06	3.84	3.84	34.3	90	1 (1)		8 of  9 (Twins)
10	Mike Witt		 72	1945.0	109	104	15.4%	 7.8%	0.77	3.78	3.62	33.8	95	1		9 of  9 (Angels)
If you want the best pitcher who spent the 1980's in the AL, you could easily make a case for Dave Stieb, who got 1.4% of votes in his only appearance on the HOF ballot in 2004 (while Morris was getting 26.3% in his 5th ballot). Apparently more than 1/4 of the electorate gained new appreciation for Morris.

I looked at 1990-1999 to see if I could find a decent comp for Morris in terms of high IP, a lot of wins, mediocre ERA and came across Steve Finley and Andy Benes -- and they both have to face guys on steroids. WHen he pitched in the early 90's, Morris had an ERA- of 107 (7% worse than average).
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Last edited by RedsManRick; 01-14-2013 at 09:46 PM.
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