Re: Should Bronson Arroyo make the Reds Hall of Fame?
Originally Posted by 757690
All I'm saying is that there probably aren't that many pitchers, who have logged as many innings as Arroyo has over those years, and had a league average or better ERA.
WOY showed that there have been six. That definitely puts Arroyo in the top ten percent, actually, closer to the top one percent of starting pitchers during that time period. To me, that says he's an elite pitcher. Having a league average or better ERA and pitching lots of innings are to two biggest criteria I have for starting pitchers.
As for WAR, it's just not a valuable tool for evaluating pitchers. But even if you think it is, it clearly has a strong bias against pitchers like Arroyo who consistently outperform their peripherals. No matter how much you believe in DIPS, there has to be a point when a player outperforms his peripherals enough times where you have to say that his actual performance is a better judge of his talent than his peripherals. Arroyo is perfect example of this.
Arroyo really only outperforms his peripherals in front of Walt's defenses. This has been shown before.
You're talking about elite
. WAR is a great tool for this discussion because while he's logged a lot of innings, they haven't been especially stellar ones. Guys who could legitimately be in an argument about elite like Smoltz and Mussina, only require roughly a third of the innings to post the same WAR as Arroyo has as a Red.
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