Originally Posted by 757690
That's what I'm saying. And "closers" and "high leverage" have been synonymous for most of MLB history, so it actually has more relevance than the current "save situation."
I would agree that closers, the way closers are used today and have been for the past 15 years or so, don't matter much.
I disagree with the bold. Closer and save situation go hand in hand. That is a fact. That is what closers are used for and that defines a closer. You are attempting to change the definition of a closer by saying "a guy used in a high leverage situation." Most fans and even most baseball people don't know the definition of what "high leverage" is. They think it's a save situation, and often it is not. Not many people know about leverage index and ever fewer understand it, so there is no way a closer is defined by high leverage situations defined by the leverage index.
The whole point of this thread is to prove that the current usage of a closer, which is one pitcher being used only for save situations, has little to no impact on the outcome of baseball games. Therefore those pitchers should be used differently. Changing the definition of what a closer is by stating it's someone in a high leverage situation, as defined by the leverage index, completely changes the debate. In fact, I would state that if more managers used their best bullpen pitchers in only high leverage situations and not save situations, you would see an impact in late game win percentage increases vs. the current usage of a closer. Yet that does not happen in baseball (well, not very often), and therefore using high leverage stats is not applicable when discussing the current role of a closer since closer are used exclusively for save situations, not high leverage situations.
In the end we agree on how "closers" should be used, but discussing high leverage stats is not applicable to a debate concerning the current definition and usage of closers. Closers are used in save situations, and that is the relevant stat when discussing their current effectiveness (or lack thereof since they are being misused).