Originally Posted by jojo
All arguments are not equal. Claiming someone is a cheater requires a compelling argument, perhaps even a more compelling argument, than any other typical claim given that the nature of the argument is also an attack on the player's character and the integrity of his performance.
That a professional athlete has gotten in better shape and improved his performance as he's aged from 25 to 31 years old is NOT compelling evidence that he is also a cheater. It certainly doesn't prove a point and isn't even a weak argument because it frankly is the embodiment of the normal developmental trajectory for major league ball players. It's the lowest common denominator of "proof" and that has never been ORG worthy at least given the culture of the ORG since I've been a member.
Do some on the ORG want to speculate about PEDs use? No doubt. But lets not pretend that just because there is some desire to suppose this player or that player is a cheat that doing so is somehow a noble discussion and is really anything but a tangent to the notion of discussing baseball in a reds-centric manner and a subject matter that tends to provoke poor quality discussion threads.
In other words, the quality of the ORG would be undeniably better without such lowest common denominator types of threads.
You continue to make this mistake. No one is arguing that just because a player has gotten better, there is reason to speculate about PED's. The argument is that if a player increases his power significantly at an age when most humans stop getting stronger naturally, there is reason to speculate about PED use. We have empirical evidence that doing PED's increases one power, so it is a logical, rarional argument to make, based on data.
As to the quality of discussion that this topic generates, I suggest you re-read the thread.
In the debate, posters brought forth other data to suggest that there were other factors in play. Brought forth was:
That Molina started his MLB career at a very young age.
That Molina started working out more.
That the Molina family has been known for late career improvement.
That Molina had always been a good line drive hitter.
That Molina's wOBA showed a steady improvement
That Molina's BABIP might explain his improvement.
WOY brought forth many other players from MLB history that had similar imporvements at the same age.
And that's off the top of my head. There was more great points made on both sides.
The thread itself is proof that such a topic doesn't represent the lowest common denominator of the ORG. In fact, except for the thread police who kept trying to derail it by claiming it wasn't ORG worthy, the thread has provided some of the most intelligent, logical, fact based discussion that this board has seen in awhile.