Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
Stalin killed a lot of people, but Germany was considered a Christian nation. I'm sorry you dislike that, but everything Hitler did was done in the name of God.
This is the most absurb notion that I have ever heard. I don't know who has gotten into your head, but your impressions/attitude towards Christians is so wrong and misguided.
Hitler, like so many other past corrupt world leaders, was a deranged pschopath who used any and all avenues to carry out his perverted agenda, including evoking the name of God. It wasn't God that motivated him to exterminate 6 million of whom God says are his "chosen people" (Jews).
Now maybe Hitler (and the German people) may have thought so; but Jesus said that when the blind lead the blind, they both will end up in a ditch. If the Germans were truly Christian, or considered themselves a Christian nation (i.e. followers of Christ), then there is no way they could have allowed their leaders to lead them down this path.
Saddam and Bin Laden say that everything they did/do is also in the name of God. So did Charles Manson. We see in the news daily where some emotionally deranged individual goes off the deep end and does an atrocious act, and then claims God was telling them to do so.
Bill Clinton spent quite a bit of time while President canvassing and speaking in churches (especially African-American churches). He told one church "I am doing the will of God on this earth."
Where was the outcry then?
You can't just pass off evil things that Christians have done as not counting simply because you don't really consider those people to be Christians. That's not the way it works.
It sure does work that way. Especially when you attach the label "Christian" to someone like Hitler who was not a Christian. And then try to use that analogy to insult and label all Christians as fascists!
In fact, Jesus, and the apostles in the early church taught that the way you "test the prophets" and those who claim to be his representatives is by looking at the "fruit of their deeds" and if their agenda/ideology is in-line with his Word. So show me again where Jesus and his followers (fascists) advocated genocide?
You are again under the misconception that just because someone attachs the Christian "label" to themselves that therefore it must be true. But I, and millions of other Christians look at thier works. We can't look at their "hearts", only God can do that. But their outward works are pretty indicative of what is in their hearts.
Because politically active Christians in this country want a free pass for whatever they do, because they feel God wants them to do it.
Examples please? I have no idea what you are talking about. If anything, Christians believe in personal responsibility/accountability, because we believe that one day we all will stand thus before a just and holy God.
And we are just as empassioned on all sorts of social issues as you may be. It just so happens that we differ in opinion, and in some cases, the appraoch taken.
Religious fundamentalism is fundamentally oppressive.
This statement, the way it is phrased, is hilarious. Fundamentally speaking of course.
This is a supreme example of why progressives like yourself, and MAYBE why many within your party, are not able to "connect" with people of faith in this country (especially in those red states).
You want a religion that is free of any type of "restraints" (as you might define them). It's all superficial and outward. It's OK for one to attend church regularly, listen to a good sermon, and basically go through the motions and feign religiousity. But for heavens sake, keep it where it belongs.... in the church and in the home. Don't let it be seen, displayed, or lived out in the public forum. It's offensive and oppressive. And you're not allowed to let your relgious views dictact or influence how one conducts themselves in this life.
That is called hypocrisy in my book RF.
If only Jesus had done that he wouldn't have been persecuted and crucified. He was such a rebel-rouser. Also the apostles and early church.
Many who would say the same thing about secularism and liberalism, fundamentally speaking. I find societies founded on secularism, such as Communist Russia, China, N. Korea, and now even aspects of France and Canada, as being oppressive. Ever notice the trend within some of these nations that the first "freedom" they attack or take away is religious freedom? Why?
It only seems "oppressive" to someone like yourself who defines
moral values in a completely different light.
You believe "truth is relative" (what each individual wants to make it to be). In the Gospels when Jesus told those soon-to-be apostles to "leave all and follow him", and that he was the "the way, the truth, and the light", was he somehow advocating a sort of oppressive fascism?
The bottomline is that you RF (and the author of this article/editorial) is trying to find some sort of reasoning/rationale as to why you lost this current election. Youre still scratching your heads over how this could happen. And since it is absurd for you (or your party) to look inwardly
and maybe, just maybe, think they are doing something wrong, or took missteps, that lead to their failure at not "connecting" with that electorate, you have to find that "culprit" elsewhere (outward)... religion.
And instead of trying to understand, or figure out a way to reach out to that important
segment of our population... and it is a an important and influential segment..... you attack and insult them.
You seem to have no problem with using hate speech when it serves your purpose.
That is gonna go a long way to helping your party in 2008.