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oregonred · 12-16-2004, 02:52 PM

This is one of the most entertainiming/best threads I've ever seen on the forum.

Sure I'd like Clement instead, but I doubt the Reds were ever going to outbid the Angels et. al. at 10M per for Clement... but I'm fine with the deal as it upgraded a pathetic staff. You've got a guy with some tools, playoff experience and some past success under control for a couple of years. History shows he'll be a disaster in a Reds uniform (the Dempster law of Gulletization), but at least you've got a guy who has the POTENTIAL to be a solid starter. With the Cards/Braves he magically wins 18 and posts a 4 ERA, with the Reds...

Gardner, Pauly, Wagner and Coffee weren't in the deal which makes this trade anything but a disaster and low risk.

IMO, Ortiz would NOT have been non-tendered. The Angeles bought out his option for 100K not to have to pay $5.5M next season. They would have budgeted the $3.5-3.8 he'd get in arbitration. These guys have a $100M payroll and cash to burn remember?

The market for serviceable #3 type guys with any service time is $4-5M. That's just reality. In this case at least the Reds aren't committed to anything beyond 2006 with Wilson and beyond the present with Ortiz.

12-16-2004, 02:52 PM	#366
oregonred "So Fla Red" Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: South Florida - The Real Humidor Posts: 4,470	Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz This is one of the most entertainiming/best threads I've ever seen on the forum. Sure I'd like Clement instead, but I doubt the Reds were ever going to outbid the Angels et. al. at 10M per for Clement... but I'm fine with the deal as it upgraded a pathetic staff. You've got a guy with some tools, playoff experience and some past success under control for a couple of years. History shows he'll be a disaster in a Reds uniform (the Dempster law of Gulletization), but at least you've got a guy who has the POTENTIAL to be a solid starter. With the Cards/Braves he magically wins 18 and posts a 4 ERA, with the Reds... Gardner, Pauly, Wagner and Coffee weren't in the deal which makes this trade anything but a disaster and low risk. IMO, Ortiz would NOT have been non-tendered. The Angeles bought out his option for 100K not to have to pay $5.5M next season. They would have budgeted the $3.5-3.8 he'd get in arbitration. These guys have a $100M payroll and cash to burn remember? The market for serviceable #3 type guys with any service time is $4-5M. That's just reality. In this case at least the Reds aren't committed to anything beyond 2006 with Wilson and beyond the present with Ortiz.