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Thread: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

  1. #61
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Forget the players' union for a second, cause they would never let this happen.

    But who on here would be in favor of Olympic-type penalties? Let's say 1 year ban (and allowance for team to void contract) for the first offense. Lifetime ban for the second?

    I am just typing this up off the top of my head without a ton of deliberation, but I'm thinking it would be nice to have such a system. It seems to me that many players think the reward outweighs the risk under the current rules.
    I would be in favor of that. As you said, the players' union would take to the streets with guns before they'd approve it though.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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  3. #62
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    I think the penalties are severe enough. The testing methods and testing frequencies are not good enough though. I think most players in MLB are clean in today's game. The few that are using PEDs are getting caught eventually. Hopefully the new HGH testing will clean up the game even more. The hard-core steroids that have the biggest benefit in terms of improving performance are easy to catch with current tests. It is the weak, subtle PEDs that sometimes slip through the cracks. I don't think PEDs are affecting the results on the field very much at all.

  4. #63
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    I think you'll see some incredible shrinking players now that the HGH blood test is coming to MLB.

  5. #64
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    I think you'll see some incredible shrinking players now that the HGH blood test is coming to MLB.
    I think you'll have a hard time finding a significant effect of HGH before and after testing.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #65
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I think you'll have a hard time finding a significant effect of HGH before and after testing.
    Of course, people said that about 'roids too.

  7. #66
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Of course, people said that about 'roids too.
    HGH probably hurts baseball player performance more than it helps if used as a PED.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #67
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I think you'll have a hard time finding a significant effect of HGH before and after testing.
    As someone who has taken both HGH and Steriods (at separate times) as prescribed by my doctors for health reasons, I can tell you you are very wrong about this.

    Steroids made me significantly stronger and clearly would have been more effective as a performance enhancing drug, but HGH turned me into an overall better athlete. I lost nearly all of my body fat, gained muscle (not nearly as much as when on steroids, but it was noticeable) and was significantly quicker with my reflexes and faster as a runner. As soon as a stopped using HGH, I gained fat, lost muscle and became much less athletic. The before and after pics of me are striking in their differences.

    Now, I imagine it would have less of an effect on a professional athlete, who was already in great shape, and already a great athlete, but I also imagine it would make some difference in their overall athletic ability. As a former HGH user, I can testify that it absolutely would enhance anyone's performance as a baseball player.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    As someone who has taken both HGH and Steriods (at separate times) as prescribed by my doctors for health reasons, I can tell you you are very wrong about this.

    Steroids made me significantly stronger and clearly would have been more effective as a performance enhancing drug, but HGH turned me into an overall better athlete. I lost nearly all of my body fat, gained muscle (not nearly as much as when on steroids, but it was noticeable) and was significantly quicker with my reflexes and faster as a runner. As soon as a stopped using HGH, I gained fat, lost muscle and became much less athletic. The before and after pics of me are striking in their differences.

    Now, I imagine it would have less of an effect on a professional athlete, who was already in great shape, and already a great athlete, but I also imagine it would make some difference in their overall athletic ability. As a former HGH user, I can testify that it absolutely would enhance anyone's performance as a baseball player.
    HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

    You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #69
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

    You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.
    Does the confidence that PED's give a player matter in this type of discussion. I'm not sure what others think, throwing that out there.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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  12. #70
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

    You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.
    I became a much, much better baseball player when on HGH, then before, and then got worse afterwards. My swing and bat speed was amazingly quicker after taking it. I actually had to adjust my whole hitting approach because I was now pulling everything. It wasn't about being stronger, it was about being quicker and more athletic.

    I agree that for professional baseball players, the difference wouldn't be as big, but baseball is game of inches and milliseconds. Every little bit matters. Like I said, it's not the same as with steroids, but it definitely is a performance enhancer.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #71
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

    You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.
    In a game like baseball where a hundredth of a second can change the complete outcome of an at bat, even the smallest advantage is a big deal. Plus, where are you getting this info from?

  14. #72
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    In a game like baseball where a hundredth of a second can change the complete outcome of an at bat, even the smallest advantage is a big deal. Plus, where are you getting this info from?
    Get on Pubmed.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #73
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Get on Pubmed.
    Care to link to your source?

  16. #74
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    In a game like baseball where a hundredth of a second can change the complete outcome of an at bat, even the smallest advantage is a big deal. Plus, where are you getting this info from?
    Every sport is like that

  17. #75
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    Re: MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Every sport is like that
    Which is why PEDs are so widespread.


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