2013 Golf Season Thread

[Hoosier Red]

Phil started five years before Tiger. Phil was considered the next great thing, until Tiger came along. Since Tiger came on the scene, it's just those two, as far as obvious future HOFers in their prime the entire time.

Look at the all-time PGA wins list. Tiger is 2nd and Phil is 9th (37 wins behind Tiger). Then, for players in a similar time frame, it drops down to Davis Love III (tied for 33rd), Ernie Els (tied for 38th) and Jim Furyk (tied for 51st). Next on the list, believe it or not, is David Duval. Think about that. David Duval. So, IMO, there is no comparison between the caliber of player Jack regularly faced, compared to what Tiger has faced.

There's a bit of a circuitous argument to this as well though.
I don't think anyone would argue fields are deeper now than when Nicklaus was playing. So it logically follows that if there are more players capable of winning a random tournament, then the number of tournaments top players would be expected to win would come down.

So it's not Tiger that is necessarily taking tournament victories away from the likes of Mickelson, Els, and Furyk. Rather its there are more random guys capable of winning one tournament and/or major by having a completely ridiculous week.

Also David Duval is a perfect example of the slightly less than great all time players who seem to be more prevalent in Tiger's day. Tiger and Phil have both now been great golfers for about 20 years give or take. During that time frame, guys like Duval(13 wins in 5 years), Vijay Singh(great career, but 13 wins in about 1 1/2 years). Padraig Harrington won all three of his major championships within about 13 months of each other too.

Maybe there were spurts like that from players in Nicklaus' day too, but it seems more common now than 20-30 years ago.

[MWM]

There's a bit of a circuitous argument to this as well though.
I don't think anyone would argue fields are deeper now than when Nicklaus was playing. So it logically follows that if there are more players capable of winning a random tournament, then the number of tournaments top players would be expected to win would come down.

So it's not Tiger that is necessarily taking tournament victories away from the likes of Mickelson, Els, and Furyk. Rather its there are more random guys capable of winning one tournament and/or major by having a completely ridiculous week.

I think this is correct. Jack grew up in the 50s before the golf boom. He turned pro in 1961. At that time, there were about 5 million golfers in the US. It was pretty much entirely a country club, elitist sport.

When Tiger turned pro, there were over 25 millions golfers in the US and while it was still skewed towards the affluent, it was dramatically different than it was in the 50s. Many of the guys on tour now would have not even played golf had they grown up in the 50s.

The junior golf programs that exist these days were not in existence back then either. Golf is available to a much larger portion of the population now than it was back then, and there are player development programs now that prepare talented golfers for competitive golf at very young ages. I think there are many more guys capable of winning on tour now than ever before. That's why you don't see as many multi-winners.

[bucksfan2]

Phil started five years before Tiger. Phil was considered the next great thing, until Tiger came along. Since Tiger came on the scene, it's just those two, as far as obvious future HOFers in their prime the entire time.

Look at the all-time PGA wins list. Tiger is 2nd and Phil is 9th (37 wins behind Tiger). Then, for players in a similar time frame, it drops down to Davis Love III (tied for 33rd), Ernie Els (tied for 38th) and Jim Furyk (tied for 51st). Next on the list, believe it or not, is David Duval. Think about that. David Duval. So, IMO, there is no comparison between the caliber of player Jack regularly faced, compared to what Tiger has faced.

The fields in today's golf are much deeper. While there may not be another player to win tournaments at a high level during Tiger's era, the quality of competition is much stiffer.

I also wonder about the impact of money pouring into golf has had on total win numbers. When Jack played it was your job. Heck go back to Hogan's era and you were playing in a tour event every single week to make ends meat. In today's golf you can pick and choose which tournament you want to play in. You show up with an advertisement on your shirt, hat, golf bag, play a particular type of ball and swing a brand name club and your walking off the course with nice pay day regardless of what you shoot. For example a guy like Hunter Mahan has played in 19 of 36 events so far this season. He is a nice player, a top 20 type player, but a guy who tee's it up about half the time.

I guess my point is you will never see high win totals out of golfers anymore. Financially there isn't that incentive anymore. The only guys out there week in week out are the fringe tour guys hoping to gain their card again for next season.

[texasdave]

Jack Nicklaus did not play week in week out; if that's what is being implied. His high was 27 tournaments in his first year as a pro. After year three, he never played in more than 21 in a season.

Year Tourn Wins Win Pct
---- ----- ---- -------
1962 27 3 11.11%
1963 23 5 21.74%
1964 25 4 16.00%
1965 21 5 23.81%
1966 18 3 16.67%
1967 21 4 19.05%
1968 20 2 10.00%
1969 21 3 14.29%
1970 20 2 10.00%
1971 18 5 27.78%
1972 20 7 35.00%
1973 19 7 36.84%
1974 18 2 11.11%
1975 18 6 33.33%
1976 17 2 11.76%
1977 19 3 15.79%
1978 16 4 25.00%
1979 13 0 0.00%
1980 14 2 14.29%
1981 17 0 0.00%
1982 16 1 6.25%
1983 16 0 0.00%
1984 14 1 7.14%
1985 16 1 6.25%
1986 16 1 6.25%
1987 12 0 0.00%
1988 10 0 0.00%
1989 11 0 0.00%
1990 10 0 0.00%
----- --- --- ------
Total 506 73 14.43%

[texasdave]

Tiger had it to -2 at one point but wobbled down the stretch. He double bogied 9 (his 18th) to finish at +1. He currently sits six back of Jim Furyk. Rory is at +2 through the front 8. Phil doubled number 4 and is at +3. There have been a ton of rounds under par in the early going.

[Chip R]

I saw where Phil forgot to enter the PGA tournament until Wednesday.

[MWM]

Well, it finally happened. Golf will now be on FOX in the future.... and the US Open at that. Deal was announced today.

[Chip R]

Well, it finally happened. Golf will now be on FOX in the future.... and the US Open at that. Deal was announced today.

Will we be seeing Thom Brennaman and Joe Buck doing tournaments?

[texasdave]

Phil has birdied four of his last six. He now stands at -1. As does McIlroy. Adam Scott briefly had it to 6-under but has lost a stroke at 16.

[Australian Red]

Scotty is so good at Majors 6 top 5's in his last 7 and now equal clubhouse leader.

Also we all know Greg Norman is the best golfer of all time

[texasdave]

Phil follows Tiger's lead with a double on 18. Both are at +1. Mickelson's, of course, was a little more up and down. McIlroy at -1.

[Australian Red]

http://picktheholechallenge.pga.com/

Where did you all vote? I voted A as it looks the toughest with the Bunker and Water in play

[texasdave]

http://picktheholechallenge.pga.com/

Where did you all vote? I voted A as it looks the toughest with the Bunker and Water in play

I went with C. A was tempting though.

[New York Red]

Well, it finally happened. Golf will now be on FOX in the future.... and the US Open at that. Deal was announced today.

Hate to hear that. I love the regional networks, but FOX's national sports coverage is terrible. Also, is it too soon to hate on FOX Sports 1? It seems like they took many of my least favorite anchors to make up their studio team. Other than Gus Johnson, I'm not a fan of any of them.

[texasdave]

First-round co-leader Adam Scott is breaking away from the rest of the field. Following up on his 5-under first round, Scott has chipped three more strokes off of par in his first seven holes. He stands alone at -8, three strokes up on his closest competitor.
Rory McIlroy is dropping it likes it hot. 4 over on his front nine today. He moves from -1 to +3.
Phil is at even through seven, one stroke better than par on his second round.
Tiger is still out on the range, whacking golf balls into submission no doubt.