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Thread: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

  1. #16
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    After Mesaraco's suspension, he was diagnosed and sidelined with a concussion. When he came back, he was sent to Louisville and then when the roster was expanded he just got buried. He wasn't just buried at the end of the bench, he just vanished. After August 20th, he got into two games as a late inning replacement and saw a grand total of 3 plate appearances. He not only didn't get a start, he didn't get an at bat and I don't believe he even caught a pitch.
    Somebody in the organization made the decision that Navaro was going to be the backup catcher in the playoffs and once that decision was made, burying Devin at the end of the bench makes sense.
    I don't THINK the organization gave up on him, but....well funny things happen. I'm sure there are 25 other organizations around baseball that would be glad to have him.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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  3. #17
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Burying Devin at the end of the bench doesn't make sense to me. If there are two positions that I want to have extra depth ready when approaching the playoffs they are pitcher and catcher. On any given play at the plate a team might be needing another catcher. The Reds had their playoff spot locked up early enough that they could/should have given Devin a couple of starts. That gives Hanigan a little more rest and maybe knocks some of the rust off of Mesoraco in case he would have been needed. No big deal now as it is all water under the bridge at this point.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  4. #18
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    I'm not convinced Mez will ever be a frontline starting catcher. I think he is somewhat overhyped. And aside from probably one good year in the minors, I don't see what he has done to be so hyped.

    The former #1 pick Stubbs experiment finally ended. I see the Mez experiment ending eventually by trade.

    I think the Reds will send Mez to Louisville, saying he needs to catch everyday. Then I think if he capitolizes and puts up good numbers, he will be packaged in a trade. That's my prediction.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #19
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I think the Reds will send Mez to Louisville, saying he needs to catch everyday. Then I think if he capitolizes and puts up good numbers, he will be packaged in a trade. That's my prediction.
    Boy I hope you're wrong about this, but a part of me feels the same way. Not only were Devin's offensive numbers disappointing (although as a previous poster mentioned, some of it very well may have been due to bad luck), there were far too many instances where he looked absolutely lost at the plate. Of course, some of this could have been related to sparse plate-appearances, but in a sport where individual performance largely dictates playing time, he certainly failed when given the chance to help himself.

    I still think he deserves some more time, though I am far less confident in his ability going into this year than I was going into 2012. Hopefully he proves himself deserving of a roster spot in Spring Training. I would really like to see what he can do with a heavier workload, but I'm certainly not against having Hanigan as the go-to guy. The dude’s a leader, and his talent behind the plate speaks for itself.

  6. #20
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    I think there is zero percent chance that Devin Mesoraco is traded in 2013.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  7. #21
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    I love hanigan. One of my favorite players on the team. I was a catcher in high school and college and spent 2 years as a high school assistant instructing pitchers and catchers and I just have a love and respect for the catcher position some people can't find. Some say the catcher ERA is a worthless stat and I couldn't disagree more. Hanigan is the glue that keeps are pitchers in tact and I respect everything he has done for this team

  8. #22
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    I love hanigan. One of my favorite players on the team. I was a catcher in high school and college and spent 2 years as a high school assistant instructing pitchers and catchers and I just have a love and respect for the catcher position some people can't find. Some say the catcher ERA is a worthless stat and I couldn't disagree more. Hanigan is the glue that keeps are pitchers in tact and I respect everything he has done for this team
    Catchers ERA sucks. I can't stress that enough. Heck, pitchers ERA kind of sucks when you really think about it. The pitcher gets all of the credit, good or bad. What about his defense? What about the ballpark(s) he gets to pitch in? What about a few poor scorers decisions on errors/non-errors throughout the season that lead to 5 earned runs showing up instead of being unearned (That is a quarter of a run of ERA right there)?

    So, first, you have to deal with all of the stuff that makes a pitchers ERA iffy. Then you add in trying to credit the catcher with all of those things as well as which pitchers he happens to be catching? Talk about a terrible stat.

    Again, that isn't to say catchers can't improve/hurt a pitchers ERA. They absolutely do. But catchers ERA doesn't tell us which ones are good at it. Put any catcher with the Reds staff or the Rockies staff (even if you take them out of Coors) and they are going to look a lot better or a lot worse because the pitchers are pretty darn good or pretty darn bad.

    You want to know which catchers are helping and hurting their pitchers? Learn how to use Pitch F/X data and find out which pitchers can frame pitches the best/worst. Both of our guys are good at it, though Hanigan is very good at it. Look at who throws out a good amount of runners (though even this can also be partially placed on the pitchers on the mound too.... some guys hold runners much better than others). When you figure out those two things, you will start to get a good idea of which catchers are the best and which are the worst. Catchers ERA can't begin to come close to telling you anything close to that.

  9. #23
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    I can respect that. Makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. But I wouldn't go all out and say its a worthless stat nonetheless. Agree completely when It comes to framing pitches which hanigan does very well. And for a guy to go undrafted like that and do what he is doing is just remarkable. But I may be wrong but when I heard hanigan speaking with Marty hanigan is an absolute work horse on the field and when watching film. I may be wrong but I also took from the conversation that he calls the game for the most part. So he needs to know who doesn't like X pitch during X count with X runners on base and so on and so forth. And the pitchers really love having him behind the plate for those reasons. Because of his work ethic and his intelligence behind the plate. So it's a good thing we have hanigan for meso to learn from. Just hopefully he can get his bat going

  10. #24
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    I think Mes focused so much of his game last year on his defense and handling of the pitchers that his bat suffered mightily because of it. Maybe this year he can find that balance he needs to become the player everyone thought he would be at the beginning of 2012. No way Im giving up on him yet. Give him another year to prove himself. Hopefully he plays good enough to at least earn a 50/50 split in playing time.
    "Losing feels worse than winning feels good." -Vin Scully

  11. #25
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Mez is a stiff. I believe he gets traded within 18 months.

  12. #26
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Quote Originally Posted by mgbrown66 View Post
    Mez is a stiff. I believe he gets traded within 18 months.
    Above-average defender in 2012. Good track record of hitting in the minor leagues. Got sparring playing time as a rookie.... it is no surprise he didn't hit well.

  13. #27
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    The way he hit in the minors and the player comparisons "experts" were talking about still has me optimistic its just a matter of time until his offense starts to click. His below average rookie year is out of the way and behind him. he can only go up from here

  14. #28
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Quote Originally Posted by mgbrown66 View Post
    Mez is a stiff. I believe he gets traded within 18 months.
    Is there any factual basis for this post? The sample size that Mez has had to perform in the bigs is incredibly small. I really believe he's going to change a lot of people's minds in the next 2 years.

    But in the meantime, Hanigan is such a ballplayer. His intelligence behind the plate is incredibly underrated. There's a reason everyone wants to pitch to him.
    I highly recommend this interview he did if you haven't had a chance to read it. One of our most undervalued Reds IMO.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...nderrated-red/
    This is the year.

  15. #29
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    Mez can hit? If he can, I've never seen it at the major league level.

    Hanigan has earned the starting job and should keep it until Mez or someone else takes it from him. Mez is living on hype and that's not how baseball teams win championship. I really hope that hype is translated to success but like Stubbs, talking about potential doesn't help the team win.

  16. #30
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    Re: Hannigan vs. Mesaraco

    I think that was a huge adjustment for Mez to be only a 2 day a week catcher last year and definitely factored into is performance.


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