And who did they get to replace them? Braden looper and todd wellemeyer. Y? No young pitching coming up.
The takaway is that no GM could have forseen the injuries and few farm systems in the history of the game could have weathered the twin storms of free agency and injuries for that year.
To insist that it's Jocketty's fault somehow because he didn't have enough prospects pan out doesn't pass the smell test.
"You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
-- Christy Matthewson
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
-- Leo Durocher
My entire argument was that jocketty never brought up "impactful" young players. You brought up duncan and ryan were young players he brought up but you forgot about anthony reyes. If these player were thriving young talent why is only 1 still in the majors, and a no hit roll player at that.
Ryan was 27 his rookie year. Duncan was never a tremendous hitter in the minors and reyes, well his 2007 season speaks for itself
2011 waino missed the season team wins 90 games
Last edited by Salukifan2; 01-31-2013 at 02:17 PM.
# of cardinals in rankings top 100 in 2007:2, 2006: 1, 2005:1 (Reyes, the same gut from '06) 2004: 2
thats bad. very bad
2007 and 2006 are Baseball america
2005 is baseball think factory
2004 is rotoworld. Wanted them all to be BA but couldn't find them going back that far.
Last edited by Salukifan2; 01-31-2013 at 03:00 PM.
Also, jocketty signed all those pitchers whos contracts ended at the same time. He knew when their contracts were up and he wasnt prepared
Wherever Jocketty goes, he's in "win now" mode. The '94 Cardinals team he inherited wasn't exactly lighting up the scoreboard. Next thing you know, he was trading for established veterans and defensive stalwarts like Royce Clayton, Dennis Eckersley, Jim Edmonds, Chuck Finley, Darryl Kile, Steve Kline, Mark McGwire, Darren Oliver, Edgar Renteria, Scott Rolen, Todd Stottlemyre, Fernando Tatis, Fernando Vina, Woody Williams.
Combined with key free agent signings like Andy Benes, Kent Bottenfield, Eric Davis, Delino DeShields, Tonny Fossas, Gary Gaetti, Ron Gant, Jason Isringhausen, and Tino Martinez, he was able to put together some great teams.
And all that winning was accomplished with mediocre drafting and development. Jocketty's specialty was knowing when to give up on players and when to give them another shot. Fortunately, the Reds are looking like they're much better at drafting and developing players than the Cardinals were during his tenure (with the exception of Pujols, of course). As long as they can keep that up, I see no reason to think Jocketty won't be able to keep up with the Joneses and continue winning.
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Camis, I agree with you there. I believe that what he did in 1996 was one of the best GM jobs in the past two decades.
Unfortunately, '96 was a couple years before my time. But i do believe jocketty is one the top GMs in the game and always loved him in St. Louis. But all good things do come to an end and i think it was time for him to go when he was fired.
Ill also say this for jocketty, the second he was gone Bill Dewitt actually opened up his pocket book.
Last edited by Salukifan2; 01-31-2013 at 09:08 PM.
Key point. Just as it should be acknowledged that Castellini has done the same lately, giving WJ an opportunity to build a consistent winner.Ill also say this for jocketty, the second he was gone Bill Dewitt actually opened up his pocket book.
"Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini
The one thing to like about the three guys in this top 100 is they all look like keepers. We might see Corcino in other top 100s, but I'm not sure it's better to keep him or to move him. Yonder Alonso was a top 100 prospect and I never viewed him as a keeper (and not just because Joey Votto was the team's 1B). Now there's nothing wrong with having trade bait on hand, but it's better to have legit players.
One other thing to keep in mind is that, even though he's no longer a top prospect, the Reds are still waiting on Mes to establish himself. So if the team adds a CF and C to the All-Universe 1B, the 2012 rookies at SS and 3B, the 26 year-old power hitting RF and the cagey vet at 2B, the only real position that's going to need attention in the coming years is LF.
The system basically has three years to load up for any kind of retooling on the position player side. And the rotation is chock full of young arms too. Hopefully when new position players are needed, Winker is leading the next wave.
Raisel Ghul, the Demon's Head
Make that a thing.
Being able to fill half of the 8 position spots with inexpensive guys like Mes, Hanilton, Frazier and Cozart if they produce like expensive guys makes the GM job pretty easy.
What I don't understand is the huge gap between Hamilton and Eaton. Both have blazing speed, the only difference is that Eaton didn't have a manager letting him run almost every time he reached base. Otherwise, he has more power, better contact skills, and already great defense at a position Hamilton is just now learning. So, yeah...97? That seems a bit absurd.
Last edited by Ohayou; 02-05-2013 at 09:15 PM.
Arise and walk, come through. A world beyond that door is calling out for you. Arise and walk, come through. It's calling out for you.
People who've never sprinted don't realize how huge a 0.2 second gap is. And if you're not that fast it isn't that large, but among fast people that's well over a body length. Hamilton's gaining extra feet in a game of inches.
Raisel Ghul, the Demon's Head
Make that a thing.
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