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Thread: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

  1. #61
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    This is an easy one. The Reds feel Mesoraco is best served developing to start the season in AAA, especially with Hanigan in the majors with the starting gig.

    Reds therefore needed a major league back-up catcher. Never a position with much out there. You get guys like Rod Barajas or Miguel Olivo. It is what it is. What back-up catchers were available for nothing that are better than Olivo? Olivo clearly sucks, but for lord's sake.... he is a back-up catcher. They basically all suck. The Reds wont be missing the playoffs because their backup catcher is not good enough. If Hanigan gets injured, Mes comes up and starts. Olivo will never sniff regular playing time.

    This is not about the Reds feeling like Olivo is a superior player to Mes. It's about the way they are choosing to develop Mes. Mes will get his call-up when the Reds feel his development is best served in the major leagues getting partial playing time. The time for that is apparently not now.
    Mostly agree, but Hanigan has shown a pattern of wearing down quickly if he plays too much. 60% of the time seems to be the max for him, so the back-up catcher is going to play more than a back-up at another spot and a couple of thise pitchers are going to have to throw to him instead of Hanigan. Personally, I think the best thing for Mes would be to stick with the big league team with Arroyo and Cueto throwing to him. Those two would most seem to be capable of being independent of the catcher due to experience. The others, Latos included, seem to need the catcher to help develop them. Mes could probably learn a lot from Arroyo - probably more than he'd learn in AAA.
    Last edited by mth123; 02-01-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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  3. #62
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    Fwiw, Olivo's 2012 season ranked 29th in wRC+ out of 35 catchers with 250 ABs. His 71 wRC+ beat Mesoraco's 67 wRC+ score by four.

    From where I sit, Olivo, at this point, is pretty much the same guy as Mesoraco. If the Reds want one gut to get regular ABs in AAA, why would you pick Olivo? He's already what he is-- a poor hitter with good power. Play him two days a week to rest Hanigan early, then, IF Mesoraco catches fire in Louisville and proves he's learned whatever it is the Reds want him to learn, then he can always come up in place of Olivo.

    At this point, they're the very definition of fungible players.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  4. #63
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    60% of the time seems to be the max for him, so the back-up.
    60 percent of the time he's awesome ... every time.

  5. #64
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Doug, I like Corky too, but fact of the matter is even in the minors he's not a good hitter. That's why the Reds felt the need to go out and get more depth. They were not convinced Corky is a legit No. 3 option on the depth chart at catcher. They felt the same way last year and that's why they signed Dioner Navarro.

    Corky had a decent year at the plate for Louisville last year (.740 OPS) but really struggled in 2011 at Louisville (.652). He didn't even get called up to the Majors either year. Corky has not played an MLB game since 2010 and will be 37 soon.

    I know Olivo has struggled when given a starting job, but how can you honestly argue that he's not an upgrade over Corky Miller? Obviously the Reds' brass feels that Olivo is an upgrade or they wouldn't have signed him.
    Corky had a job in the minor leagues yesterday. Miguel Olivo didn't. I don't think anything suggests the Reds believe Olivo is a better option than Corky is. The Reds had zero depth in the minors at catcher. They had to bring someone in.

  6. #65
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    The remaining options at catcher were literally:

    Rod Barajas
    Chris Snyder
    Matt Treanor
    Miguel Olivo

    None of the other 3 are better than Olivo, IMO

  7. #66
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Corky had a job in the minor leagues yesterday. Miguel Olivo didn't. I don't think anything suggests the Reds believe Olivo is a better option than Corky is. The Reds had zero depth in the minors at catcher. They had to bring someone in.
    That's because Olivo and his agents were waiting/hoping for an MLB contract (this is a guy who made $3.5 mil last year). Miller and his agent knew there was no chance at such a thing, hence the early signing to a minor-league deal.

    I can't believe I have to explain these things to you, Doug.

  8. #67
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    That's because Olivo and his agents were waiting/hoping for an MLB contract (this is a guy who made $3.5 mil last year). Miller and his agent knew there was no chance at such a thing, hence the early signing to a minor-league deal.

    I can't believe I have to explain these things to you, Doug.
    He made that last year and he also posted a .239 OBP. They could have been trying to get an MLB deal, but they should have both known better.

    I doubt anyone even considered giving him an MLB deal.

  9. #68
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I'm guessing Olivo starts the season at AAA. His bat really went south in Seattle but, of course, it's a tough ballpark. His OBP and K/BB numbers are fairly awful, but his power has been good -- except the last two seasons.

    I view Olivo as good depth, but I'm guessing Devin M still makes the club and Olivo begins at Louisville.
    His bat was never north. Worst. Approach. Ever.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #69
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    I'm not getting the comparisons to Navarro. Navarro could get on base, and was at one point an All Star. Olivo pretty much does nothing well except hit the occasional homer. And we have enough guys that can do that already.

  11. #70
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    Miguel Olivo is a flawed player and has a hard time making contact but when he does he does damage. 31 total jacks the last 2 years playing in a pitchers paradise like Seattle is nice on a MiLB deal and if push came to shove he could hit 20 jacks in 2013 if forced into a starters role and that's real nice to have as a fall back plan even if it is with no OBP.

    You got to like the 5 XBH on 6 hits over 6 games at GABP even in the small sample size, so if he does see time on the active roster hopefully better hitting conditions will spark his confidence and we get the Colorado version and he can bounce back like Luddy after getting saved from a terrible hitting situation.

    He also has a solid catchers ERA and managing to get a 3.90 ERA out of the Rockies in 2010 while everyone else was 4.58, with far better pitching and not playing in Denver 2012 saw Devin Mesoraco at 4.19 catchers ERA and actually hit worse than Olivo but his OBP was better thanks to 4 IBB from playing in the NL.

  12. #71
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain13 View Post
    The guy hit at least 10 HRs a year in Seattle each of the past 7 seasons, it gives Mes a chance to catch everyday and learn from Corky. Power on the bench is a good thing. Young players playing everyday is a good thing. Mes teamed with Corky for a season is a great thing. Hannigan playing every day is good thing. So Olivo isn't going to throw out (m)any baserunners; I think the other things this does makes it a great signing.
    Mes could hit 10 bombs in his sleep, and does not need to learn from Corky IMO. He just needs to play in Cincy and he will produce.
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  13. #72
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You think Mesoraco is going to play one game per week? Dusty gets non-catchers more work than that.
    Sorry, was obviously a joke.

  14. #73
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    When I think back to the lost decade and contrast that with today, where our MLB roster is so set we have a 5 page thread about one of the AAA catchers I can't help but smile.

    Good times.

  15. #74
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

    Olivo brings a very limited skillset to the table that centers upon an abysmal approach at the plate that occasionally yields a homerun and a reputation for being the stereotypical clubhouse chemistry guy. Concerning his ability to handle pitchers, it largely centers upon a willingness to swat their backsides because he has poor receiver skills and a general all around fundamental UNsoundness that is surreal to watch. He's the metaphorical uniformed roadkill that you can't help but slow down to peek at. Since he's managed to hang around the bigs based upon promise and personality, I guess he's acquired another "skill"-veteranessnous.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #75
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Reds to sign C Miguel Olivo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    At the very least, this is on par with the Dioner Navarro signing last year and that turned out very well. And the Reds were extremely fortunate that they didn't have any serious injuries at the catcher position, or Navarro would have been needed a lot more. Point being: you usually need 3 legit catchers to make it through an MLB season if you're a contender. The Reds now have three.

    I like.

    (And to be clear, I'm talking about only 2 of them at a time on the MLB roster and one in AAA. None of this 3 catchers on the 25-man roster stuff. Haha.)
    Spot on.


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