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Thread: Sabermetrics

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Sabermetrics

    What are some good sites to use where I can further my knowledge of advanced stats? I'm tired of reading them, vaguely understanding them, but not really fully grasping it. For you sabermetrics out there, what can I do to increase my knowledge? I've already signed up for SABR so I imagine that can only help, but any other tips?

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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    What are some good sites to use where I can further my knowledge of advanced stats? I'm tired of reading them, vaguely understanding them, but not really fully grasping it. For you sabermetrics out there, what can I do to increase my knowledge? I've already signed up for SABR so I imagine that can only help, but any other tips?
    Fangraphs, Baseball Prospectus and Baseball-Reference are the best websites. Maybe toss Brooks Baseball in there too.

    I would suggest reading Baseball Between the Numbers, which is a book published by Baseball Prospectus. There is also Extra Innings: More Baseball Between the Numbers. Another essential is The Book by Tom Tango and crew. The Numbers Game by Alan Schwarz is great for learning the history behind the traditional stats and why the new ones are better. Those are the best ones for getting a good, solid introduction to sabermetrics. Actually that is more than a solid introduction it is a solid education that is actually fun and interesting too.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 02-02-2013 at 02:05 AM.

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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Fangraphs, Baseball Prospectus and Baseball-Reference are the best websites. Maybe toss Brooks Baseball in there too.

    I would suggest reading Baseball Between the Numbers, which is a book published by Baseball Prospectus. There is also Extra Innings: More Baseball Between the Numbers. Another essential is The Book by Tom Tango and crew. The Numbers Game by Alan Schwarz is great for learning the history behind the traditional stats and why the new ones are better. Those are the best ones for getting a good, solid introduction to sabermetrics. Actually that is more than a solid introduction it is a solid education that is actually fun and interesting too.
    Yep, hit most of them. I would say fangraphs probably has the best free resource on the internet for understanding the stats. They have tons of articles about the stats, and a library for all the stats that explains them. Just search the stat you want in their search bar. There will be a basic article on it and then the article will also link other web articles on the stat at the bottom. You will learn pretty much all you need to know about each stat.

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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    I agree with the opinions put fourth on here about Fangraphs. In my opinion, it's by far the best website for advanced stats.
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    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    redszone.com.
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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    mlb.com

    But seriously, listen to everyone else: fangraphs is the best site overall in my experience.

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  11. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    I think this is the best place to start: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/principles/
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    What are some good sites to use where I can further my knowledge of advanced stats? I'm tired of reading them, vaguely understanding them, but not really fully grasping it. For you sabermetrics out there, what can I do to increase my knowledge? I've already signed up for SABR so I imagine that can only help, but any other tips?
    You should also hit the library and read the Bill James abstract series. The Hardball Times Annuals took over for the Baseball Prospectus annuals when they became a thick, poorly edited tome of fluff printed on low quality paper. THT still is probably the best sabermetric annual.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Blah blah sliderule blah blah blah never played the game blah blah mother's basement blah blah

    Just getting it out of the way.
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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    This good site fir articles that apply sabermetric theories

    http://baseballanalysts.com/

    They also have detailed descriptions of what each abstract contains (James)

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    You guys are awesome! Thanks. I actually just brought home one of James's books from the library, look forward to getting into that. Hopefully by the end of the season I'll be more competent .

  16. #12
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    You guys are awesome! Thanks. I actually just brought home one of James's books from the library, look forward to getting into that. Hopefully by the end of the season I'll be more competent .
    Good on you for digging in to it. I think some people fear that it sterilizes the game; for me it only made the experience of being a fan richer. It's like studying the natural sciences; knowing physics and biology doesn't make the world more boring, but all the more fascinating.

    I would say though, what many people miss with sabermetrics is that it isn't about a given set of "new stats". OBP and WAR are no more or less sabermetric than ERA and RBI. They're just ways of counting stuff that happened. What lies at the core of sabermetrics is not stats, but rather the application of the scientific method to the study of the sport; using objective, testable hypothesis and always being open to better information from any source and to new conclusions that may arise.

    So while it's helpful to get up to speed on some specific core concepts (like bias, randomness and regression to the mean) the most significant step is accepting the idea that both quantitative and qualitative information are two incomplete sides of the same coin, with their own set of strengths and weakness, and with both requiring objective, rigorous analysis before rational conclusions can be drawn.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 02-02-2013 at 02:41 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  18. #13
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Ugh. Guess I'm gonna have to move in to the present and catch up on on the new stats. I'm old school and have always liked it that way. Never saw why the new stats added much.

    But I guess I'll check it out this season.
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  19. #14
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Sabermetrics

    There is another great place to start..... the redszone archives. There have been some pretty epic discussion threads concerning sabermetric issues. And there is a great deal of very good info buried in the archives. Everyone can dive in them and come out a smarter baseball fan.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Sabermetrics

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Ugh. Guess I'm gonna have to move in to the present and catch up on on the new stats. I'm old school and have always liked it that way. Never saw why the new stats added much.
    Not trying to be combative, but I'm curious what old school numbers you use and what stats you would consider new? There are new numbers that are useless and old numbers that are still pretty meaningful and vice versa.

    I think the biggest misunderstanding about numbers w/respect to baseball is the two fold uses. Are you trying to explain what happened or are you trying to predict how valuable a player will likely be in the future. There a big chasm between those two uses.

    That's a place to start. Oh, and good for you for trying to learn something.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010


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