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Thread: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

  1. #61
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Lohse, Oswalt and Bourne. 1 year for Oswalt, Lohse 4 and Bourne 4.

    That'd up the payroll to about 48 mil. It'd solidify two rotaion spots for a year, allowing the farm to mature and gives the Astros a legit CF and leadoff hitter.

    Carter will make a good DH. give him 400+ AB's he'll hit 30+ HR's in that bandbox.

    It wouldn't make them contenders. It will bridge the gap to when their farm is ready to produce major league talent.
    They would also lose their 2nd and 3rd round picks.

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  3. #62
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Houston is the 5th largest metro area in the United States (ahead of places like Washington DC, Atlanta, Miami and Boston) with a population of over 6 million. They (unlike New York, Chicago and LA -- 3 of the 4 cities ahead of them on that list) have no competition in their market from other ballclubs and a new-ish indoor facility at their disposal.

    There's absolutely no reason why this franchise should be spending less than $90-$100 million on payroll annually. The idea that "we're rebuilding" is an excuse to drop payroll to the sub-$30m level is, frankly, a joke. You can engage in player development, smart drafting and smart trading while still paying some FAs to put a competitive ballclub on the field.
    Good points. Just look what happened in Philly once it decided to stop acting like a small market franchise.
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    They would also lose their 2nd and 3rd round picks.
    They could trade Lohse and Bourn in a year and get better (and more) prospects for them.
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    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Lohse, Oswalt and Bourne. 1 year for Oswalt, Lohse 4 and Bourne 4.

    That'd up the payroll to about 48 mil. It'd solidify two rotaion spots for a year, allowing the farm to mature and gives the Astros a legit CF and leadoff hitter.

    Carter will make a good DH. give him 400+ AB's he'll hit 30+ HR's in that bandbox.

    It wouldn't make them contenders. It will bridge the gap to when their farm is ready to produce major league talent.
    This also assumes Lohse and Bourne want to play for Houston. Not sure that's the case.
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  6. #65
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Didn't the astros net Alex White from the Rockies? I like his upside in the rotation if so.. Also, I thought they were moving paredes to the OF in order to make room for him. He looked to have a decent season in AAA... I think they will be bad, potentially historically bad.. But I like the direction they're headed. They can fast track some talent, let the kids play.
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    They could trade Lohse and Bourn in a year and get better (and more) prospects for them.
    SO, teams won't give up their first round pick for these guys, yet a year later will give up better and more prospects to obtain them?

    And this assumes that either or both of these players will sign with a bottom feeding team like Houston, decline a no-trade clause, and allow themselves to be flipped at will.

    It seem slike a great idea on paper, but rthese types of signings rarely, if ever, occur for top level players.

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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    The question is for the Astros: "Will this guy be on our team when we're good?" Meaning, is this guy a Brandon Phillips or Joey Votto type, or is he a Ryan Freel or Ken Griffey Jr type?

    The Astros apparently decided that their window will not open for 3-4 more years because they didn't want to keep Lowrie just to play on bad to average teams.

    By that rule, they did well to cash in on Lowrie, who they got for a reliever. So Mark Melancon = a young starting DH, another reliever, and a 21 year old advanced catcher. I wouldn't say they are treading water at all.

    As far as payroll, I do agree that it's pretty insulting to the Houston market to provide a team without any real FA talent. I think there is a lot of sense in picking up a big name to help sell tickets. They could do that no problem.

    OTOH, if they are stashing that money, then in 2015 or so, they may be able to buy whoever they want. 50 million per year over 3 years and all the sudden they have a huge money tree to pluck from for a decade.

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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by cincyinco View Post
    This also assumes Lohse and Bourne want to play for Houston. Not sure that's the case.
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Good points. Just look what happened in Philly once it decided to stop acting like a small market franchise.
    And got rid of Ed Wade, who then proceeded to take the Houston franchise to a period of futility. He's the gift that keeps on giving.
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Fair point. But can you honestly say that they've made a bad trade in the past year or 2? Especially when you consider that some of the players were on record saying they weren't going to re-sign there? (Bourn, Lee & Pence IIRC). Nearly all the deals they've made in the past 2 years have netted them quantity AND quality. If you look at their top 20 prospects...outside of the 2 or 3 drafted these past 2 years, nearly all of them have come via these trades. If those MLB players weren't going to make you a winner AND they weren't willing to re-sign...then holding onto them is kinda stupid.
    But you keep on telling us the cupboard was bare, so wouldn't it be intuitive when you add something to nothing that the something would now be the best you have? All that really proves is that they received prospects that were better than the duds they had. And the minor league systems rankings can be taken with a grain of salt anyhow. Talk about a wax nose area in the game. Since its national signing day for football, there is a good analogy when it comes to ranking minor league systems and recruiting classes. There is a lot more written about "prospects" compared to the actual fruit from those trees. I honestly think their plan to go 100% prospects or bust is flawed from the outset.
    Last edited by traderumor; 02-06-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by cincyinco View Post
    This also assumes Lohse and Bourne want to play for Houston. Not sure that's the case.
    Well I haven't heard anything regarding Lohse, but everything I here down here indicates that neither Oswalt or Bourn want to come back. How valid that is, I don't know.
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  14. #72
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    But you keep on telling us the cupboard was bare, so wouldn't it be intuitive when you add something to nothing that the something would now be the best you have? All that really proves is that they received prospects that were better than the duds they had. And the minor league systems rankings can be taken with a grain of salt anyhow. Talk about a wax nose area in the game. Since its national signing day for football, there is a good analogy when it comes to ranking minor league systems and recruiting classes. There is a lot more written about "prospects" compared to the actual fruit from those trees. I honestly think their plan to go 100% prospects or bust is flawed from the outset.
    This is absolutely true. Some of the prospects they got in the early trades weren't really top shelf IMO...but from the Houston perspective they were much better than what they'd had. But the trades in the past year, those have generated legitimate top 10-20 prospects in most anybody's system.

    But I don't think they're going 100% prospects. They've got some guys with MLB experience with legitimate upside who've struggled recently. Bedard comes to mind.

    My main point was that they really didn't have many other viable options on a route to take. The FA market really wasn't very good, at least not good enough to make that dud of a franchise into a contender. And if you're going to spend a boatload of money in the FA market, if you're not shooting for a contender...what's the point? Spending money just to make your team stay above water without striving for a championship is kinda crazy IMO.

    I can get behind the idea of signing FA's in order to keep from rushing prospects. But to just sign them to avoid looking like an embarrassment...nah.
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    This is absolutely true. Some of the prospects they got in the early trades weren't really top shelf IMO...but from the Houston perspective they were much better than what they'd had. But the trades in the past year, those have generated legitimate top 10-20 prospects in most anybody's system.

    But I don't think they're going 100% prospects. They've got some guys with MLB experience with legitimate upside who've struggled recently. Bedard comes to mind.

    My main point was that they really didn't have many other viable options on a route to take. The FA market really wasn't very good, at least not good enough to make that dud of a franchise into a contender. And if you're going to spend a boatload of money in the FA market, if you're not shooting for a contender...what's the point? Spending money just to make your team stay above water without striving for a championship is kinda crazy IMO.

    I can get behind the idea of signing FA's in order to keep from rushing prospects. But to just sign them to avoid looking like an embarrassment...nah.
    I'd say a trade of Jed Lowery was signs of a team going 100% prospects. I reviewed the roster again this morning, that is an embarrassment. There are a lot of ways to skin the MLB cat, but they are chasing the cat's tail on this one.

    As for FAs, the Astros could do something like the Reds did signing Dave Parker in 1984 after two years of embarrassing teams. They gotta start somewhere, not just continuing to deal anybody with value for prospects, throwing them all up on the wall, and hope they stick.
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  16. #74
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    That's who's left. Outside of Michael Bourn and maybe Kyle Loshe, where are the impact players who make that team even remotely respectable? Most of the guys on that list are 1 step away from retirement, injured/coming off injuries, or just plain BAD. There's VERY little talent in the FA market IMO. IMHO, the Astros are better off letting their young players sink or swim at this point.
    .
    Sure, if the Astros waited until early Feb to fill their roster, there's not going to be much left.

    There's no reason why they couldn't have spent some money on a few reclamation projects or vets on one year deals to make the team not a complete joke. Also, having the club be in a position where they aren't forced to call up prospects early is beneficial long term for the player development.

    I guess I"m not too upset, because I'm not an Astros fan, but they are as bad (if not worse) than the Marlins franchise right now. Maybe down the road it pays off, but then they are going to have the same problem many of these "burn" franchises have.. When the team becomes respectable again, are there going to be any fans left that care (after 5+ horrible seasons)
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  18. #75
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    Re: A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    SO, teams won't give up their first round pick for these guys, yet a year later will give up better and more prospects to obtain them?.
    Yep, it's an irrational universe. Though it should be noted that there's a fairly large qualitative difference between a mid-high 1st rounder and 2nd and 3rd round picks. Teams believe they can hit the lottery with a 1st rounder, they really ought to know better with later picks. On top of that, they're less romantic about the kids in their system.

    Plus, I suspect the real drag on those two getting signed is their agent. Of course more than a few teams deserve to be pilloried for not signing Bourn and Lohse. The Orioles are placing their bets on Nate McLouth when they could have Bourn instead? Seriously? The Boston Comedy Sox pitching staff couldn't benefit from signing Lohse? Or the White Sox? The Twins ought to want him back. In other circumstances fans ought to be up in arms that their teams are letting quality players sit on the shelf. Why spend you money if the team won't spend its money? The mitigating factor is Boras. It's reasonable to believe he's still being unreasonable.
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