Turn Off Ads?
Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 244

Thread: Chris Carpenter likely out for 2013.

  1. #136
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Since we're speaking in "objective" terms, Bleacher Report is objectively recognized as one of the worst sports websites on the Internet.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #137
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Yes, people who say ridiculous things always have people that want to listen. Thats why Howard Stern, Don Imus, Bill MAher, Bill O'reilly, etc.... are all millionaires. T-Plush had alot of followers too.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...content.4.html

    That list is of "most Eccentric" which is a nice way of saying annoying.

    He's the one who insulted a team and a fan base on a radio show, then showed up the other teams catcher at the beginning of a game starting a brawl. Yes, both teams were too blame but if Phillips would have first, not said anything inflamatory or second not came up to molina like they were old chums jus to get a rise out of him then the fight wouldn't have happened.

    He is also the one who accused Neil walker of being a racist when Neil Walker's family practically prays to Roberto Clemente every night. Neil Walker is about the furthest thing from a racist.

    Also, major networks aren't going to publish lists of the most annoying players. They will leave that to bloggers which is why it works fine for this. For analysis yeah its not that great, but for an article about annoying players? its just fine
    Phillips said nothing about Neil Walker. That was Jared Hughes. Basically everything you have said in this thread has been empirically incorrect.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  4. Likes:

    919191 (02-06-2013), OnBaseMachine (02-06-2013), remdog (02-08-2013), Tom Servo (02-06-2013)

  5. #138
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,552

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    What exactly do you base that on? Leake is only 7 months older. Here are their MLB rates thus far:

    Leake

    6.03 K/9, 2.38 BB/9, 1.64 GB/FB, 4.02 SIERA/3.87 xFIP

    Kelly

    6.31 K/9, 3.03 BB/9, 1.88 GB/FB, 4.12 SIERA/4.03 xFIP


    They're basically the same pitcher.
    Well they aren't the same pitcher. I think he's right to say that Kelly is more talented than Leake. Leake is a guy that relies on finesse. Joe Kelly is younger and can blow away people. I think his upside is greater. Joe Kelly's fastball, for example, averaged 94.2 MPH last season. It was on average one of the strongest fastballs for starters last season.

    Right now they might be the same pitcher but I think going forward in the next couple of years Kelly will be better because his stuff is very good. That's why I think someone can say Kelly is more talented.

    EDIT: It should also be noted that Kelly only started 12 games in AAA last year before being called up. He was very raw last year and I expect him to be better this year with MLB experience under his belt.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 02-05-2013 at 08:59 PM.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  6. #139
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    7,551

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    I'm loving this thread.

    Let's go ahead and start the season right. I want ten in a row with the Cards right now.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  7. Likes:

    919191 (02-06-2013), Boss-Hog (02-06-2013), jmac (02-05-2013), remdog (02-08-2013), Tommyjohn25 (02-05-2013)

  8. #140
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,512

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Well they aren't the same pitcher. I think he's right to say that Kelly is more talented than Leake. Leake is a guy that relies on finesse. Joe Kelly is younger and can blow away people. I think his upside is greater. Joe Kelly's fastball, for example, averaged 94.2 MPH last season. It was on average one of the strongest fastballs for starters last season.

    Right now they might be the same pitcher but I think going forward in the next couple of years Kelly will be better because his stuff is very good. That's why I think someone can say Kelly is more talented.

    EDIT: It should also be noted that Kelly only started 12 games in AAA last year before being called up. He was very raw last year and I expect him to be better this year with MLB experience under his belt.
    I don't know where Kelly has shown this ability to "blow people away" looking at his career numbers. Throwing a little harder doesn't make him a power pitcher. He still relies on location and a heavy ball to induce grounders. He pitches more like a finesses pitcher than a power guy.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #141
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,552

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I don't know where Kelly has shown this ability to "blow people away" looking at his career numbers. Throwing a little harder doesn't make him a power pitcher. He still relies on location and a heavy ball to induce grounders. He pitches more like a finesses pitcher than a power guy.
    His career numbers based on 16 games started? In the minors he was a strikeout pitcher and he will more than likely translate to that in the majors. By saying "throwing a little harder" I don't think you're doing his fastball much justice. Averaging 94.2 MPH on his fastball isn't just throwing it a little harder. A good chunk of pitchers never even reach that. To put that in perspective, Justin Verlander averaged 94.9 MPH on his fastball last year. By no means am I saying Joe Kelly is equal to Verlander. Not by a long shot. All I'm trying to say is that averaging 94+ in the course of a given year is nothing to look down on. To put that in perspective, no Reds starter averaged 94+ on their fastball.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  10. #142
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Mike got to that before i could. Kelly has the tools to become a #2 pitcher. Leake does not.
    I said Kelly has more talent than Leake, not that he has put up better numbers after a little over a dozen MLB starts.

    I was wrong about the neil walker thing, i thought i remembered it was betweem him and the second baseman.

    Other than that, nothing ive said has been "empirically incorrect." Many people do find Brandon Phillips to be annoying. Maybe if Chris Carpenter ever actually played folks would remember he is annoying too, idk. And the Reds vs. Cards is not a huge rivalry in St. Louis unless both are competing for the division. They were in opposite divisions for a long time so they didn't play each other that much. Milwaukee vs St louis was a huge rivalry 2 years ago. now, not so much. The same thing will happen with reds and cardinals. They compete for a while, then one will fall back, or maybe both will and the rivalry will die. Its not a a bitter historic rivalry like it's being treated by some.

  11. #143
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,038

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Mike got to that before i could. Kelly has the tools to become a #2 pitcher. Leake does not.
    I said Kelly has more talent than Leake, not that he has put up better numbers after a little over a dozen MLB starts.
    Mike Leake has better stuff than Kelly. He doesn't throw harder, but he has more movement, more pitches he can use effectively and better control. His biggest problem has been the gopher ball. Watch the two pitch, and it's clear who has a higher ceiling, it's Leake and it's not even close.

    Card fans talk about how Kelly only had 12 starts in AAA before his promotion to the big leagues. Leake went straight from college to the bigs in 2010. He basically has been learning on the job for the past three years. The simple fact that he has three full season of being an MLB starter puts him ahead of Kelly. He is now at the age and experience level where most pitchers turns the corner.

    I really like Kelly, love his fastball, but he's mile away from putting it together. In fact, he has not even been mentioned in the discussion to fill Carp's spot. There's a reason why.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  12. Likes:

    remdog (02-08-2013)

  13. #144
    Moderator Tommyjohn25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Fairborn, OH
    Posts
    1,848

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    I'm loving this thread.

    Let's go ahead and start the season right. I want ten in a row with the Cards right now.
    I agree. I'm ready to rock war paint, brother.

    I would also like to thank everyone for keeping this thread (mostly) civil. I try not to post in Cards/Reds threads, because it is literally impossible for me to be objective on the subject. My hate for that organization knows no boundaries.
    Benzinger backing and calling! And the 1990 world championship series belongs to the Cincinnati Reds!

  14. #145
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Mike Leake has better stuff than Kelly. He doesn't throw harder, but he has more movement, more pitches he can use effectively and better control. His biggest problem has been the gopher ball. Watch the two pitch, and it's clear who has a higher ceiling, it's Leake and it's not even close.

    Card fans talk about how Kelly only had 12 starts in AAA before his promotion to the big leagues. Leake went straight from college to the bigs in 2010. He basically has been learning on the job for the past three years. The simple fact that he has three full season of being an MLB starter puts him ahead of Kelly. He is now at the age and experience level where most pitchers turns the corner.

    I really like Kelly, love his fastball, but he's mile away from putting it together. In fact, he has not even been mentioned in the discussion to fill Carp's spot. There's a reason why.
    Thats because Kelly was a reliever in College. And he was in the mix to get a starting job out of spring training before Carpenter got injured. It was known that Lynn, Miller, Kelly, and Rosenthal were going to battle it out for the last spot. Now that another spot has opened im sure they will give Lynn one. That means its Kelly, Miller, and Rosenthal fighting for the final spot. But im sure Garcia won't be able to make it more than 10 innings in spring training before his shoulder flares up.

    If mike Leake's upside is so high then why is he either going to start the next season as a middle reliever or in triple-A? The same position Kelly will find himself in. Kelly has been rapidly promoted over the last year and Leake is about to be rapidly demoted.

  15. #146
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Thats because Kelly was a reliever in College. And he was in the mix to get a starting job out of spring training before Carpenter got injured. It was known that Lynn, Miller, Kelly, and Rosenthal were going to battle it out for the last spot. Now that another spot has opened im sure they will give Lynn one. That means its Kelly, Miller, and Rosenthal fighting for the final spot. But im sure Garcia won't be able to make it more than 10 innings in spring training before his shoulder flares up.

    If mike Leake's upside is so high then why is he either going to start the next season as a middle reliever or in triple-A? The same position Kelly will find himself in. Kelly has been rapidly promoted over the last year and Leake is about to be rapidly demoted.
    Because the Reds have an excellent rotation. It's not a knock against Leake.

  16. #147
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    If Mike Leake didn't go 8-9 with 4.58 era last season he would not be getting removed from the starting rotation to be replaced by a guy who has 0 mlb starts. Mike LEake does not have a high ceiling. He will at best be a #4 starter in his career. Joe Kelly may very well only be a #4 starter. But his tools give him the ability to be better. And for a guy who can only throw a no movement fastball he seemed to do pretty well in his 16 starts with I believe over a dozen of them being quality starts.

  17. #148
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,038

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    If Mike Leake didn't go 8-9 with 4.58 era last season he would not be getting removed from the starting rotation to be replaced by a guy who has 0 mlb starts. Mike LEake does not have a high ceiling. He will at best be a #4 starter in his career. Joe Kelly may very well only be a #4 starter. But his tools give him the ability to be better. And for a guy who can only throw a no movement fastball he seemed to do pretty well in his 16 starts with I believe over a dozen of them being quality starts.
    Leake already went 12-9 with a 3.86 ERA in 26 starts. That's easily #3 starter production, and a #2 starter on many teams. He did that in the majors when Kelly was in single A.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  18. #149
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,045

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    If Mike Leake didn't go 8-9 with 4.58 era last season he would not be getting removed from the starting rotation to be replaced by a guy who has 0 mlb starts. Mike LEake does not have a high ceiling. He will at best be a #4 starter in his career. Joe Kelly may very well only be a #4 starter. But his tools give him the ability to be better. And for a guy who can only throw a no movement fastball he seemed to do pretty well in his 16 starts with I believe over a dozen of them being quality starts.
    Looking at last years game logs, Kelly had 10 quality starts out of 16 games started. He never pitched 7 innings in a MLB game. A few of his starts were good, but he didn't make 6 innings. Certainly a 3.53 ERA is nothing to feel bad about...
    __________________
    “This one was a perfect one. I don’t know if I can find a better one, better timing. He [Price] really said some great things there. It really encouraged us to go back and do what we do. … I didn’t know he could speak like that.” Brayan Pena 5/21/14

  19. #150
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: Cardinals Call 1:30 CT Press Conference - Carpenter likely out for 2013.

    yeah he had a 3.86 era sandwiched between 4.23 in 2010 and 4.58 in 2012. Jake Westbrook once had a 3.38 era. That doesn't make him a #2 starter.

    Look you can make this argument all you want but Mike Leake was awful this year and if everything goes well for chapman, he will never be anything more than a spot starter for the reds ever again.

    And, if that production makes him easily a #3 and possibly a #2 then Bailey is a bonafide #2 and possibly a #1? Give me a break.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25