Turn Off Ads?
Page 14 of 27 FirstFirst ... 410111213141516171824 ... LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 398

Thread: Ryan Braun going down?

  1. #196
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,311

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    In the future they'll be able to wipe them from our memories once we enter Amerika
    Can't wait.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #197
    Member RedsfaninMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    476

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    As a science geek, I look over many journals. About a year ago, one study suggested drinking green tea masks testosterone. I think it very naive to think there aren't numerous masking agents and that a good number of players use them.

    Here's the article reference:

    Carl Jenkinson, Andrea Petroczi, James Barker, Declan P. Naughton. Dietary green and white teas suppress UDP-glucuronosyltransferase UGT2B17 mediated testosterone glucuronidation. Steroids, 2012; 77 (6): 691

  4. #198
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    11,211

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    In the future they'll be able to wipe them from our memories once we enter Amerika
    As long as they can wipe middle school and my fourth and sixth girlfriends from my memory as well, I'm all for it
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #199
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,311

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    That's a list of guys who used, allegedly, before testing, or who got caught. And if they got caught, then apparently it's not so easy to beat the system. Also, the system hasn't even been around for a decade, let alone decades. And if Braun had an otherwise foolproof method of beating the testing, then how did he get caught in 2011?

    I look forward to your exposé on the University of Miami. Since it's everywhere and people are making so much money on it, I'm sure it will be easy to pick up the evidence trail.

    Also, Braun's college coaches haven't coached him since college. So please lay out exactly who Braun's support team is. That's easy to do with Armstrong so I'm sure you'll have no problem doing it with Braun.
    Exposé is already in progress. You may not need to wait very long..

    The University of Miami named its baseball stadium after Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez after he donated $3.9 million to renovate the field. One of baseball’s premier hitters, Ryan Braun, played for the university from 2003 to 2005 before leaving to begin his professional career. The Washington Nationals star pitcher Gio Gonzalez calls an assistant for the university’s baseball team his “off-season strength coach.”

    These three players and at least five other people with ties to the university have been cited on documents from an anti-aging clinic under investigation by Major League Baseball for providing players with performance-enhancing drugs. The connections have compelled the major leagues’ investigators to train their focus on the university’s baseball program, which they suspect is a nexus of performance-enhancing drug use.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/sp...rugs.html?_r=0

  6. Likes:

    Fil3232 (02-08-2013)

  7. #200
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,776

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    People get so agitated, volatile, angry and intolerant when steroids are discussed. It is an extremely emotional issue.

    I support eliminating PEDs with a strong testing program and stiff suspensions for violators. I also understand that the influence of PEDs on the game has been drastically overblown.

    I think we should avoid witch-hunts and rabid ranting about players based on shoddy evidence. We should consider all evidence rather than disregarding evidence that doesn't doesn't fit our opinions. Let's have some standards. Let's make sure the villains are villains before we crucify them.

    The current testing system is much more effective than it used to be. It catches anyone using hard-core PEDs but some players might get away with using weak PEDs for awhile.

    Nobody truly knows the facts in the Braun case. Having a strong opinion about Braun's guilt or innocence is a sign of gullibility and closed-mindedness.

    The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs are not responsible for increased scoring and home runs. Scoring and home runs were already declining as steroid usage rose to its peak in 2004. Many other factors contributed to increased offense in the 90's and the subsequent decline in offense since the 2000 season. These factors have been described in several threads here on Redszone as well as in published studies (Baseball Prospectus and others). The popular notion that steroids re-wrote the record books is not supported by the evidence.

    If people really studied the effects of steroids they would come to the realization that steroids had very little effect on the game. It is time to calm down and enjoy the game again without all the hatred and animosity that is sparked whenever the topic of steroids is broached.

    Hopefully an effective PEDs testing program will finally move the sport past this divisive stage.

  8. #201
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,311

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    People get so agitated, volatile, angry and intolerant when steroids are discussed. It is an extremely emotional issue.

    I support eliminating PEDs with a strong testing program and stiff suspensions for violators. I also understand that the influence of PEDs on the game has been drastically overblown.

    I think we should avoid witch-hunts and rabid ranting about players based on shoddy evidence. We should consider all evidence rather than disregarding evidence that doesn't doesn't fit our opinions. Let's have some standards. Let's make sure the villains are villains before we crucify them.

    The current testing system is much more effective than it used to be. It catches anyone using hard-core PEDs but some players might get away with using weak PEDs for awhile.

    Nobody truly knows the facts in the Braun case. Having a strong opinion about Braun's guilt or innocence is a sign of gullibility and closed-mindedness.

    The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs are not responsible for increased scoring and home runs. Scoring and home runs were already declining as steroid usage rose to its peak in 2004. Many other factors contributed to increased offense in the 90's and the subsequent decline in offense since the 2000 season. These factors have been described in several threads here on Redszone as well as in published studies (Baseball Prospectus and others). The popular notion that steroids re-wrote the record books is not supported by the evidence.

    If people really studied the effects of steroids they would come to the realization that steroids had very little effect on the game. It is time to calm down and enjoy the game again without all the hatred and animosity that is sparked whenever the topic of steroids is broached.

    Hopefully an effective PEDs testing program will finally move the sport past this divisive stage.
    I think macro trends of scoring and HRs are very different than singular performances of certain players. It is much easier to see the effect on a known user. I agree that there are likely other factors in play, however I completely believe that PEDs were the biggest reason why we saw some of those individual performances. Without a doubt.

  9. Likes:

    The Operator (02-17-2013)

  10. #202
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,426

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You definitely implied that Braun was helped by something he injected.



    It absolutely makes a difference because if PEDs don't enhance performance there is nothing to call into question.

    If it's all just a matter of perception, I'd argue that Ruth's record is far more offensive because of the discrimination that defined the environment in which he played (and that's ignoring the rampant cheating in the culture of his era).

    One might argue that the modern game might actually be the most untainted-discrimination is not tolerated, players are well represented and no longer taken advantage of, the game is called at a higher caliber than any time in it's history, Tampa bay is just as likely to make it to the world series as New York and more players have access because of expansion and an effort to develop international players.

    While I'd love to time travel and watch Ruth in his prime, I would take modern baseball to a version during Ruth's era any day.

    MLB's blackout policy is far more offensive than it's drug testing policy.
    I do believe that Steroid/HGH use enhances players stats and especially their ability to avoid fatigue. As to Braun individually, I don't know whether he is a constant user, just this one time, or occasional. All I have said is that barring tampering, he tested positive in that test and got off on a technicality. That's it.

    Bum

  11. Likes:

    RedsfaninMT (02-09-2013), TeamSelig (02-17-2013)

  12. #203
    Member joshua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,090
    OI think some of you are complicating this whole thing. Nothing said here would lead to guilt in the courtroom because we simply don't have the reports. Here is how I look at it:

    Braun testes positive for synthetic testosterone. This deems the whole T/E ratio argument pointless.

    The only way synthetic testosterone could show up in a test is if it were in Braun's body or added afterwards. The samples were not tampered with...if they were it would be painfully obvious to whatever lab tech processed them.

    Taking a clean sample and letting it sit might change T/E ratios, but degradation would show up in the test, and synthetic testosterone wouldn't be in it.

    WADA let's samples for boxers and olympic athletes sit over the weekend if they can't be mailed. As far as I know, here hasn't been controversy there.

    In any other sport, Braun would be found guilty. The language and lack of foresight in the CBA concerning chain of command was what he used to get out of it.

    A ton of people on Bosch's list that tested positive are University of Miami players. The place is literally down the street from the Miami baseball facilities. Braun knows players that were Bosch clients for nefarious reasons. Braun played at Miami. Was he really naive to what went on there? That's enough coincidence to make me 80% convinced Braun was using something. Again, that wouldn't hold up in court, but let's be reasonable here...too much smoke concerning that place, why would Braun want to be associated with it?

    Why would Braun go to consult with this dude, who isn't a doctor and is a known PED peddler for his defense case when, for $20-30k he could get an experienced and respected biologist or a real PED expert? Seriously, if you were going to go that close to the University of Miami campus and shell out that kind of cash, why not consult with professors and biology researchers instead of a guy with no credentials? If you're charged with regular drug or prostitution charges you don't consult with a drug dealer or pimp...unless they were the ones who got you into the mess you're in. Or if want to pay him a few grand to get your records erased because MLB is coming down on you.

    That's enough to make me certain. Not enough to hold up in court, but if you truly believe Braun wasn't using I think that's wishful thinking.
    Last edited by joshua; 02-09-2013 at 03:45 PM.

  13. Likes:

    RedsfaninMT (02-15-2013), The Operator (02-10-2013)

  14. #204

  15. #205
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,624

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    People get so agitated, volatile, angry and intolerant when steroids are discussed. It is an extremely emotional issue.

    I support eliminating PEDs with a strong testing program and stiff suspensions for violators. I also understand that the influence of PEDs on the game has been drastically overblown.

    I think we should avoid witch-hunts and rabid ranting about players based on shoddy evidence. We should consider all evidence rather than disregarding evidence that doesn't doesn't fit our opinions. Let's have some standards. Let's make sure the villains are villains before we crucify them.

    The current testing system is much more effective than it used to be. It catches anyone using hard-core PEDs but some players might get away with using weak PEDs for awhile.

    Nobody truly knows the facts in the Braun case. Having a strong opinion about Braun's guilt or innocence is a sign of gullibility and closed-mindedness.

    The evidence is overwhelming that PEDs are not responsible for increased scoring and home runs. Scoring and home runs were already declining as steroid usage rose to its peak in 2004. Many other factors contributed to increased offense in the 90's and the subsequent decline in offense since the 2000 season. These factors have been described in several threads here on Redszone as well as in published studies (Baseball Prospectus and others). The popular notion that steroids re-wrote the record books is not supported by the evidence.

    If people really studied the effects of steroids they would come to the realization that steroids had very little effect on the game. It is time to calm down and enjoy the game again without all the hatred and animosity that is sparked whenever the topic of steroids is broached.

    Hopefully an effective PEDs testing program will finally move the sport past this divisive stage.
    Hard to believe that there are people out there who think that PEDs had nothing to do with 60 and 70 HR seasons. Hard to believe that they think Barry Bonds' transformation from a 40 to a 70 HR guy had nothing to do with the change in size of his head or with the evidence we now know about when he started PEDs. Hard to believe that people think PEDs had nothing to do with Mark McGwire or Brady Anderson's one 50 HR season. I know some people took awhile to see that Pete bet on baseball and all but come on people. We would not have had the huge HR numbers that now dominate the record books without PEDs

  16. Likes:

    elfmanvt07 (02-16-2013), oneupper (02-16-2013), savafan (02-16-2013)

  17. #206
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,336

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Just want to give Vottomatic props for the rhyme scheme in this thread title. That is all.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  18. #207
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,776

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Hard to believe that there are people out there who think that PEDs had nothing to do with 60 and 70 HR seasons. Hard to believe that they think Barry Bonds' transformation from a 40 to a 70 HR guy had nothing to do with the change in size of his head or with the evidence we now know about when he started PEDs. Hard to believe that people think PEDs had nothing to do with Mark McGwire or Brady Anderson's one 50 HR season. I know some people took awhile to see that Pete bet on baseball and all but come on people. We would not have had the huge HR numbers that now dominate the record books without PEDs
    If you think PEDs are the reason then you have missed some dramatic changes to the game of baseball over the last 30 years. Blaming these changes on PEDs is a totally myopic view of baseball and sports in general. If you think PEDs are the reason that players are bigger today then you just haven't been paying attention. Take a look at some photos of the weight room at Riverfront Stadium in the 1970's and compare that to the fitness center at Great American Ballpark today and then you might begin to understand why the game has changed. Watch the players work out at spring training this year and take note of all the things they do that players in prior eras did not do.

    Factor in smaller ballparks, bouncier baseballs, smaller strikezones, denser baseball bats, Coor's Field, improved nutrition, year-round fitness regimens, sabermetrics (teams realized power is better than speed for example), larger multi-national player pool, better surgeries and rehab to keep star players on the field, and 21st-century technology. Now can you see why blaming PEDs for the changes is actually so ridiculous. I can see why casual fans would think that way, but ORG members should know better.

    Pretty much every sabermetric study of the PEDs issue has shown that PEDs had a minimal impact on power and run scoring even during the height of the steroid era. Power spikes were no bigger nor more common than they were prior to the steroid era. Rates of steroid usage do not correlate well with increased scoring in major league baseball. Steroids did not rewrite the record books.

    Barry Bonds took steroids. He also worked out in the gym for 4 hours every day. Everyone agrees he was dedicated to weight training. Same with McGwire. If you lift weights that much you are going to get huge. Sure, maybe the steroids were a shortcut to strength but it is lunacy to claim that those guys only hit home runs because they took roids. It flies in the face of reason. Hundreds and hundreds of players took steroids but only a select few hit tons of home runs. It was the bodybuilding and fitness revolution that caused players to get stronger, not steroids.

    Baseball needs to get rid of PEDs. We all agree about that. But it is time to get the record straight on PEDs and quit obsessing over the issue. PEDs didn't ruin the game. The game is better than ever. The players are better than ever.

    Players took steroids in order to cheat and gain an advantage, but it turns out the joke is on them because they endangered their health and ruined their reputations yet gained no appreciable advantage on the playing field. Karma is a female dog.

  19. Likes:

    gilpdawg (02-18-2013)

  20. #208
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,311

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    If you think PEDs are the reason then you have missed some dramatic changes to the game of baseball over the last 30 years. Blaming these changes on PEDs is a totally myopic view of baseball and sports in general. If you think PEDs are the reason that players are bigger today then you just haven't been paying attention. Take a look at some photos of the weight room at Riverfront Stadium in the 1970's and compare that to the fitness center at Great American Ballpark today and then you might begin to understand why the game has changed. Watch the players work out at spring training this year and take note of all the things they do that players in prior eras did not do.

    Factor in smaller ballparks, bouncier baseballs, smaller strikezones, denser baseball bats, Coor's Field, improved nutrition, year-round fitness regimens, sabermetrics (teams realized power is better than speed for example), larger multi-national player pool, better surgeries and rehab to keep star players on the field, and 21st-century technology. Now can you see why blaming PEDs for the changes is actually so ridiculous. I can see why casual fans would think that way, but ORG members should know better.

    Pretty much every sabermetric study of the PEDs issue has shown that PEDs had a minimal impact on power and run scoring even during the height of the steroid era. Power spikes were no bigger nor more common than they were prior to the steroid era. Rates of steroid usage do not correlate well with increased scoring in major league baseball. Steroids did not rewrite the record books.

    Barry Bonds took steroids. He also worked out in the gym for 4 hours every day. Everyone agrees he was dedicated to weight training. Same with McGwire. If you lift weights that much you are going to get huge. Sure, maybe the steroids were a shortcut to strength but it is lunacy to claim that those guys only hit home runs because they took roids. It flies in the face of reason. Hundreds and hundreds of players took steroids but only a select few hit tons of home runs. It was the bodybuilding and fitness revolution that caused players to get stronger, not steroids.

    Baseball needs to get rid of PEDs. We all agree about that. But it is time to get the record straight on PEDs and quit obsessing over the issue. PEDs didn't ruin the game. The game is better than ever. The players are better than ever.

    Players took steroids in order to cheat and gain an advantage, but it turns out the joke is on them because they endangered their health and ruined their reputations yet gained no appreciable advantage on the playing field. Karma is a female dog.
    You can't believe this.

    From 1995-2002, 18 players hit 50 or more HRs. 2003-present? 6. Did the bodybuilding and fitness revolution take a hiatus around the same time as steroid testing began?

  21. #209
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    642

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    No text
    Last edited by Col_ IN Reds fan; 02-18-2013 at 12:16 AM.

  22. #210
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    642

    Re: Ryan Braun going down?

    I have to say PEDS played a big role in inflated numbers , We have 2 players hit 60 home runs for a hundred years. Then McGwire and Sosa do it same year, Bonds does it. For God sakes Brady freaking Anderson 50?
    Anyone think Clemens didn't do it is turning a blind eye.
    Now once testing begins you find the occasional cheater for stats are not overblown. No much to do with technology IMO.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25