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Thread: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

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    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Is anybody else as STOKED as I am about adding this guy to our lineup?

    High OBP, tough out, excellent SB success rate, and a real "gamer" by reputation.

    I think that his presence at the top of our order will have a MAJOR impact on our run production this year if everybody stays healthy. Imagine Joey hitting sometimes 2-3 times A GAME with runners on base!? (as opposed to 2-3 times per week)

    How many days until opening day? I'm dying for the season to start!

    I smell a title run this year, a World title run.
    Last edited by smixsell; 02-07-2013 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    The good thing about this 1 move is improved the batting order by 2 spots. Now Cozart can move down.

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    Member DannyB's Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by R_Webb18 View Post
    The good thing about this 1 move is improved the batting order by 2 spots. Now Cozart can move down.
    I hope you`re right but I will believe it when I see it.

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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    I hope you`re right but I will believe it when I see it.
    I think I remember seeing a stat last year that our typical 1 and 2 hitters (Stubbs and Cozart) ranked at or near dead last in OBP among all starting position players in the NL (ie among all players w/ more than 400ABs). That was the main driving force behind my original post.

    In light of last year's ineptitude in getting on base by our 1 and 2 hitters, I don't see how anyone could be overly skeptical about Choo's positive affect on our run scoring ability. I think Choo is going to pay MAJOR offensive dividends by virtue of his ability to get on base well and provide a SB threat ahead of our 2-3-4 hitters. I expect he'll have a positive a "domino effect" on our batting order.

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    Member DannyB's Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    I think I remember seeing a stat last year that our typical 1 and 2 hitters (Stubbs and Cozart) ranked at or near dead last in OBP among all starting position players in the NL (ie among all players w/ more than 400ABs). That was the main driving force behind my original post.

    In light of last year's ineptitude in getting on base by our 1 and 2 hitters, I don't see how anyone could be overly skeptical about Choo's positive affect on our run scoring ability. I think Choo is going to pay MAJOR offensive dividends by virtue of his ability to get on base well and provide a SB threat ahead of our 2-3-4 hitters. I expect he'll have a positive a "domino effect" on our batting order.
    Oh I agree, Cozart could excel hitting between Choo and Votto.

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    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB View Post
    Oh I agree, Cozart could excel hitting between Choo and Votto.
    C'mon...I'm talkin bout THIS kind of lineup.........

    1.Choo
    2.Phillips
    3.Votto
    4.Bruce/Ludwick
    5.Ludwick/Bruce
    6.Frazier
    7.Hannigan
    8.Cozart

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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    I think that his presence at the top of our order will have a MAJOR impact on our run production this year if everybody stays healthy. Imagine Joey hitting soetimes 2-3 times A GAME with runners on base!? (as opposed to 2-3 times per week)
    Thye difference between the lead off hitter having a .400 OBA vs. a .300 OBA is an extra baserunner every 10 AB's, or once every two games, or about 3 more per week.

    So, while the difference is considered huge in baseall terms, it's not close to what you are suggesting (which is 15 baserunners per week now, vs. 2-3 before).

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    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Thye difference between the lead off hitter having a .400 OBA vs. a .300 OBA is an extra baserunner every 10 AB's, or once every two games, or about 3 more per week.

    So, while the difference is considered huge in baseall terms, it's not close to what you are suggesting (which is 15 baserunners per week now, vs. 2-3 before).
    It was hyperbole Puffy! ... and the operative word was sometimes 2-3 times per game

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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    I was about to start a similar thread but focused on defense.

    Reds have been built around pitching and defense. Now, they have no true CFer to start games. They also now have Frazier as the likely starting third baseman. Overall, this could lead to a drop off on defense.

    Choo is exactly what this offense needed, no doubt in my mind. I think the teams's limited ability to hit righties has been helped much this off season with Choo and, for the bench, Hannahan, plus XPaul. Reds should have five lefty bats, which improves balance.

    But the question is how the pitchers will fare with an outfield of Ludwick, Choo and Bruce defensively. I think it's a legit concern.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-07-2013 at 04:01 PM.

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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I was about to start a similar thread but focused on defense.

    Reds have been built around pitching and defense. Now, they have no true CFer to start games. They also now have Frazier as the likely starting third baseman. Overall, this could lead to a drop off on defense.

    Choo is exactly what this offense needed, no doubt in my mind. I think the teams's limited ability to hit righties has been helped much this off season with Choo and, for the bench, Hannahan, plus XPaul. But the question is how the pitchers will fare with an outfield of Ludwick, Choo and Bruce defensively. I think it's a legit concern.
    We definitely lose something significant in CF but I think Frazier is actually an upgrade at 3B over last year's version of Rolen.

  11. #11
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    We definitely lose something significant in CF but I think Frazier is actually an upgrade at 3B over last year's version of Rolen.
    I definitely agree about center. I also agree that Rolen lost a step or two last year. But as much as I like Todd (and I like him more defensively than most here) he's still not better than Rolen is now with the leather. He's better than many give him credit for I think....but we got spoiled by what we saw at 3rd the last few years. Those routine plays he made time after time...they weren't routine.
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I definitely agree about center. I also agree that Rolen lost a step or two last year. But as much as I like Todd (and I like him more defensively than most here) he's still not better than Rolen is now with the leather. He's better than many give him credit for I think....but we got spoiled by what we saw at 3rd the last few years. Those routine plays he made time after time...they weren't routine.
    I agree with everything you said except that Scotty was still better than Todd at 3B last year. I'm REALLY high on Frazier, both as a hitter and as a third baseman. I think he's a rare athlete and competitor, and will continue to improve his underrated skills at 3B.

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    Member GADawg's Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    i'll be especially happy about acquiring Choo when the Reds and tribe hook up...Choo was a Reds killer it seems

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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    IMO, the concept of Phillips hitting second and Frazier sixth is a mistake. I'd switch them. I know it won't happen, but I'd go with Frazier hitting second in the lineup and Phillips sixth.

    Phillips had a lower OBP and lower walk rate than Frazier last year. And Phillips hits into a lot of double plays. Concern is that Choo gets on base but then gets erased by a BP double play.

    I'm not bashing Phillips, he is a good hitter with excellent power who gets into grooves hitting to right field. For a second baseman, his offensive is very good.

    But I'd prefer him in the sixth spot. And with no other good alternative, I'd hit Frazier second. Hanigan is very slow to hit second. Cozart's OBP is too low.

    I'd try Todd hitting after Choo.

  15. #15
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Choo's affect on our lineup..........

    Hitting Frazier at the top of the lineup would be a mistake. Too many swiings and misses for me. Leave him in 6th and watch the bottom of the lineup light up. But I'd like to see Rolen every third day in the lineup and contriuting, but the longetr we go, the less likely we will see him. No one defends third like Scotty. Perect form. Bring him back.
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