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Thread: Who cares about PED use?

  1. #1
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    Who cares about PED use?

    Why have I wasted so much time researching the Braun case and posting about it?

    The reason is because I care. If players are using PEDs, its not MLB they are cheating... its me. I am a fan. It may not be my career, but it is a part of me.

    Baseball is not Hollywood... it is not a scripted reality... it is real and unpredictable. It is truth.

    I do not care about Braun... as I said in another post, it is very possible from the test results that this may be his very first use and he was unlucky enough to get caught.

    But what I want is truth... not punishment or vengeance... just truth.

    I want the innocence that my grandfather and I had when I watched baseball on his knee.

    I want to know that when Joey Votto hits a line drive home run it is because of the skill, effort or luck that are part of the game. I want to be able to compare Votto to Gehrig and feel like there is a basis of comparison... the constant connection to history is what makes baseball special. Yes, I know that science and health care are always improving... but before PEDs it seemed to make sense to compare Mickey Mantle to Tris Speaker even though they played half a century apart.

    Sure, cheating is part of the game... and that's why there are umpires on the field to catch it. You wanna try to load up some snot on the ball? Do so at your own risk, cause the Ump can catch you and boot you. You wanna try and leave 3rd a half second before the ball is caught on a sac fly? Go ahead and try, but if the ump catches you, you are out. Same goes with stealing signals... as long as its a player or coach on the field stealing them. If you are caught, you affect the result of that game. That is part of the truth in baseball.

    PEDs are different. This is the type of cheating that the opposing team doesnt try to help catch. It won't help them win. Have you ever asked yourself why a player that tells the ump to check the opposing pitcher's glove is smart, but a player that would provide evidence that an opposing player is using PEDs is a rat?

    This is a type of cheating that happens in a bathroom stall with no one watching... that destroys the truth of the diamond... that destroys its links to history. PEDs made it totally acceptable for players to publicly lie... even before Congress or in Court.

    It was the Black Sox decision that helped make baseball so special. If you did something that destroyed the truth of the game, even if you were one of the best to ever play the game, you have lost your right to participate in it.

    Because of PEDs, I will never again marvel at the baseball ability of a player without that nagging doubt.

    For me, PEDs have destroyed the truth of baseball.

    I am a grown man... but inside, PEDs make me cry.

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  4. #2
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Excellent points and an excellent post.

    Add to your excellent points the fact that the prevalence of PED use places enormous pressure on anyone trying to compete on a level playing field, and might therefore be responsible for making some young men put their long term health at serious risk, and you can count me in as a PED hater.

  5. #3
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Harsher penalties. Not only for the players but also for their teams, that way management has more incentive to stop it.

    When Melky got busted, i thought Michael Smith (from ESPN) had a great idea. At that time Cabrera was sporting a WAR of 5.5. His idea was to dock the team that that player is on the number of wins WAR says he is worth. For melky 5.5 would round up to 6. Giants then have a win total of 88 and have to play the cardinals in a one game play off to get the 2nd wildcard.

    As far as the player goes, i love what Matt Holliday said. 1st time, you miss the season. 2nd time, youre banned.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures, lets clean the game up.

  6. #4
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    As far as the player goes, i love what Matt Holliday said. 1st time, you miss the season. 2nd time, youre banned.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures, lets clean the game up.
    I generally agree.

    I'd say 162 game ban for a first offence, 324 game ban for a second offence, lifetime ban for a third offence.

  7. #5
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    I agree. If I fail a drug test at work Im terminated. The penalties need to be harsher. A 162 game ban for first time offense with no pay and a lifetime ban which includes no hall of fame no anything for a second offense. If they will ban Pete for gambling you absolutely have to ban for PED use. I dont think they should punish the teams though. These guys are grown men. They are the only ones who can control what they put in their body. It just stinks though because as soon as they can find something in a test they find something else that can go undetected.
    "Losing feels worse than winning feels good." -Vin Scully

  8. #6
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    What irks me a little is that they only care about this in the MLB. This is a problem rampant across ALL professional sports, but it's only ever discussed in a baseball context. I would be willing to bet that 25% of NFL players use banned substances (and that is a conservative estimate imo).

  9. #7
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    I agree with the Holliday policy of punishments.

    At the same time, part of me thinks that professional sports -- since the Greeks -- have been prone to performance enhancement. So I can't get too riled up about it.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    What irks me a little is that they only care about this in the MLB. This is a problem rampant across ALL professional sports, but it's only ever discussed in a baseball context. I would be willing to bet that 25% of NFL players use banned substances (and that is a conservative estimate imo).
    Lance Armstrong wishes you were right.

  11. #9
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    The game is played by carbon based units.

    Drug testing from home of over 750 players based on news reports is a mighty task.

    Don Quixote says have fun.

  12. #10
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    What irks me a little is that they only care about this in the MLB. This is a problem rampant across ALL professional sports, but it's only ever discussed in a baseball context. I would be willing to bet that 25% of NFL players use banned substances (and that is a conservative estimate imo).
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bl...oids-in-sports

    Football - NFL

    How often do they test? 12,000 tests are conducted during the season, including 10 randomly selected players from each team in every week of the season. Players can also be randomly selected for testing up to six times each off-season.
    How many athletes get tested? Every NFL player is tested at least once per year.

    Baseball - MLB

    How often do they test? At least twice per year -- once early in spring training, once later at a random date.
    How many athletes get tested? 600 players three times a year, and up to 60 in the offseason.

  13. #11
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM13 View Post
    Lance Armstrong wishes you were right.
    People don't care about doping in cycling, just Armstrong.

  14. #12
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    So does that mean all 12,000 are random or just the 10 per week?

    Also, i don't trust the NFL at all. They can say anything they like and i probably won't believe it. Just like they said for oh so many years that their is no permanent damage done when receiving a concussion.

    P.S. I might just hate the NFL
    Last edited by Salukifan2; 02-09-2013 at 12:22 AM.

  15. #13
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    I used to care. I no longer do. If athletes want to poison their body in order to produce better, then so be it. And I don't think there is evidence that the new "designer drugs" are as terrible for the body as anabolic steroids are (if anyone has evidence to the contrary I would like to read it). So if they know the risks/the risks today are minimal, I don't see the problem. In the end it produces a better product on the field. The only reason players like Ruth and Gehrig didn't cheat with PED's is because they weren't around, and back then players were not as fitness minded as they are now. They didn't train all year round, simply because millions of dollars weren't at stake.

    And to all the people who say it's despicable for these athletes to cheat the game like this, you have no idea what you would do in their situation. You don't know how you would react of millions were at stake, and you could set your kids, and your kid's kids, and your kid's kid's kids up for life.

    I have more of a problem with the amount of other issues in the game, such as DUIs, players beating their wives, and the corruption associated with Latin American scouting. This should be a much bigger focus on "cleaning up the game," IMHO.

  16. #14
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Quote Originally Posted by drowg14 View Post
    I used to care. I no longer do. If athletes want to poison their body in order to produce better, then so be it. And I don't think there is evidence that the new "designer drugs" are as terrible for the body as anabolic steroids are (if anyone has evidence to the contrary I would like to read it). So if they know the risks/the risks today are minimal, I don't see the problem. In the end it produces a better product on the field. The only reason players like Ruth and Gehrig didn't cheat with PED's is because they weren't around, and back then players were not as fitness minded as they are now. They didn't train all year round, simply because millions of dollars weren't at stake.

    And to all the people who say it's despicable for these athletes to cheat the game like this, you have no idea what you would do in their situation. You don't know how you would react of millions were at stake, and you could set your kids, and your kid's kids, and your kid's kid's kids up for life.

    I have more of a problem with the amount of other issues in the game, such as DUIs, players beating their wives, and the corruption associated with Latin American scouting. This should be a much bigger focus on "cleaning up the game," IMHO.
    I would never leave so much money to my kids that none of my descendants would have to work to live comfortably for 3 generations, but maybe thats just me.

    And if you allow professional athletes to start taking PEDs you will set a precedent. College athletes will want to start doing it so they can have a leg up once they get to the pros, and then highschool players will want to follow suit.

    That all being said, I dont have nearly as much of a problem with players using substances like HGH to rehab from an injury. If a normal person got a serious injury and their doctor told them that if they take a substance, safely, then it would rapidly decrease their recovery time we'd all take it. Obviously we wouldn't be able to have it both ways though.

  17. #15
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    Re: Who cares about PED use?

    Great points and great post. And I like the one, two and lifetime bans as well.

    PED's have no place in sports - period. End of story. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.


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