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Thread: Michael Bourn - CLE

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  1. #1
    Member nheath22's Avatar
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    Michael Bourn - CLE

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...7109--mlb.html

    Looks like the Indians outfield may not have a spot for Stubbs everyday... Bourn, Swisher, and Brantley would be the everyday starters by my estimation with Stubbs coming off the bench as a 4th outfielder unless Swisher is going to DH.

    That being said, Cleveland's lineup will be pretty good again next year with Cabrera and Kipnis to combine with their outfield. Might be contenders in the AL Central depending on how Detroit holds up this year.
    "The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    I've read some people saying they should move Stubbs to left and Swisher to either DH or first, but I don't think Stubbs is good enough offensively to play left field. You can almost deal with a .200 hitter if he plays good defense in center, but I don't see how you can put up with that kind of production from left field. So it looks like the Stubbs era in Cleveland didn't even last til Spring Training.

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Also I still don't think Cleveland has the pitching to compete with Detroit or the other top AL teams, but that lineup is a lot scarier than it looked before

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by 90reds View Post
    Also I still don't think Cleveland has the pitching to compete with Detroit or the other top AL teams, but that lineup is a lot scarier than it looked before
    i dont think top AL teams have enough pitching to stop the Indians from scoring, but the indians do have a deep and overly talented BP

    the only teams cleveland might have trouble with are Detroit, Toronto, white sux only because even the best cleveland teams struggle with them for some reason, and thats about it

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribefan33 View Post
    i dont think top AL teams have enough pitching to stop the Indians from scoring, but the indians do have a deep and overly talented BP

    the only teams cleveland might have trouble with are Detroit, Toronto, white sux only because even the best cleveland teams struggle with them for some reason, and thats about it
    Not seeing it. Exactly where did they improve from last season? Swisher was a decent addition, but he doesn't offset the loss of Shin Soo Choo. Bourn is a good CF and lead-off guy and probably moves the needle a bit. The rest are just treading water IMO. Mark Reynolds in, Travis Hafner out. Drew Stubbs isn't much. Rotation is still poor IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not seeing it. Exactly where did they improve from last season? Swisher was a decent addition, but he doesn't offset the loss of Shin Soo Choo. Bourn is a good CF and lead-off guy and probably moves the needle a bit. The rest are just treading water IMO. Mark Reynolds in, Travis Hafner out. Drew Stubbs isn't much. Rotation is still poor IMO.

    Swisher doesn't offset of the loss of Choo? Uh what? in what universe?
    in the last 3 years Swisher has 76 HRs to Choos 46, Swisher has 99 Doubles to Choos 85, Swisher had 230 Walks to Choos 192, and Swisher has had the same or better WAR 2 of those 3 years, and Swisher actually stays healthy, offensive wise Swisher was a HUGE upgrade and its not even close really

    Same with Hafner and Reynolds, last 3 years Reynolds has 82 HRs to Hafners 38, 70 Doubles to Hafners 51 and again he stays healthy, so thats another HUGE upgrade, i mean if you cant see a almost 50 HR diffrence isn't incredibly significant then idk what to tell you other then you more then likley cant even spell the word baseball let alone should be talking about it

    what about adding Bourn over Damon/Carerra/Cunningham?
    or Chisenhall over Hannahan?


    but its clear you just wanted to troll and get owned while looking like a fool in the process, and thats fine, but do some research next time chump

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Swisher will be the every day DH, Stubbs will start in CF.

    At least for the first 100 to 120 games anyway!

  8. #8
    Wait... What? Vander's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Can't really blame them for not handing the keys to Stubbs after his past few years of regression. However, he's a pretty good 4th outfielder, and if they contend, might (..... might) have some trade value at the deadline. It all really depends on whether or not Tito thinks he can "fix" him or not.

    But I really don't understand why so many analysts suddenly think they can contend for a wild card when their rotation is being led by Ubaldo and Masterson... Bourn is good, but he can't pitch, and that's what they need more than anything.

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    Member nheath22's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander View Post
    Can't really blame them for not handing the keys to Stubbs after his past few years of regression. However, he's a pretty good 4th outfielder, and if they contend, might (..... might) have some trade value at the deadline. It all really depends on whether or not Tito thinks he can "fix" him or not.

    But I really don't understand why so many analysts suddenly think they can contend for a wild card when their rotation is being led by Ubaldo and Masterson... Bourn is good, but he can't pitch, and that's what they need more than anything.
    Definitiely agree their pitching is their Achilles heel, but their lineup is pretty solid.

    Masterson and Jiminez are decent starters but definitely not aces for a staff. Both are somewhat consistent but never dominant in their careers.
    Bret Meyers is a wild card from not starting last year for most of the year, but if he can muster up his old stuff, he could be a decent middle of the rotation guy.
    Trever Bauer or one of their other young guys will probably be in their rotation as well. Bauer has talent and could turn into a decent starter although he definitely has a big learning curve ahead of him.

    A signing like Loshe could go a long way for them in my opinion and give bauer more time to develop while allowing them to contend now.
    "The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi

  10. #10
    Wait... What? Vander's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by nheath22 View Post
    Definitiely agree their pitching is their Achilles heel, but their lineup is pretty solid.

    Masterson and Jiminez are decent starters but definitely not aces for a staff. Both are somewhat consistent but never dominant in their careers.
    Bret Meyers is a wild card from not starting last year for most of the year, but if he can muster up his old stuff, he could be a decent middle of the rotation guy.
    Trever Bauer or one of their other young guys will probably be in their rotation as well. Bauer has talent and could turn into a decent starter although he definitely has a big learning curve ahead of him.

    A signing like Loshe could go a long way for them in my opinion and give bauer more time to develop while allowing them to contend now.
    I agree that their offense will be legit, but that won't get them a wild card if they can't keep runs off the board. And as for signing Lohse, I honestly would have used the money they just spent of Bourn on him. Ask yourself this: Which is weaker? An Indians offense without Bourne, or an Indians rotation without Lohse?

    Now, I don't know what their financial situation looks like right now, so for all I know, they're working on signing Lohse as we speak. But still, as things stand, I think Lohse would have been a better signing. If I were an Indians fan, I just wouldn't trust Masterson or Ubaldo at all right now.

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    Member Kilgore_Trout's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    I think it's a solid addition for the Indians, though I do agree with the poster above me who suggested that a Lohse signing may have been more beneficial. Just a cursory glance over their rotation's statistics for last season suggests a dire need of a reliable arm. Barring health, Lohse could have been that guy.

    Not that I particularly care, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Stubbs. John Heyman suggested in an article on CBS Sports that Drew is "eminently available," or at least the odd man out.

  12. #12
    Member nheath22's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilgore_Trout View Post
    I think it's a solid addition for the Indians, though I do agree with the poster above me who suggested that a Lohse signing may have been more beneficial. Just a cursory glance over their rotation's statistics for last season suggests a dire need of a reliable arm. Barring health, Lohse could have been that guy.
    From what I have heard about Lohse is that many analysts think he is asking for both too much money and too many years for many teams to think of signing him. While we can look at the stats from last year and say he could be an ace pitcher right now, he definitely has been been consistant throughout his career and could just as easily flop as put up another good season in 2013. Bourn was the safer play in my opinion in terms of knowing what you are going to get.

    With 2 new guys in the rotation this year also, hard to compare all of the numbers to last year, but they definitely could use all the help they can get in the pitching department in order to become a contender.
    "The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi

  13. #13
    Wait... What? Vander's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Quote Originally Posted by nheath22 View Post
    From what I have heard about Lohse is that many analysts think he is asking for both too much money and too many years for many teams to think of signing him. While we can look at the stats from last year and say he could be an ace pitcher right now, he definitely has been been consistant throughout his career and could just as easily flop as put up another good season in 2013. Bourn was the safer play in my opinion in terms of knowing what you are going to get.

    With 2 new guys in the rotation this year also, hard to compare all of the numbers to last year, but they definitely could use all the help they can get in the pitching department in order to become a contender.
    Honestly, they're both risky free agents. Your points on Lohse are more than valid. However, Bourne is also risky as his entire value is based on being fast. As soon as he slows down a little bit, there goes his career.

    But you can't look at the two in a vacuum. We're talking about a team that already had a pretty good offense, but with a starting rotation that, quite frankly, has been terrible.

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Cleveland trying "to buy" a competitive team. Never been a fan of Nick Swisher but kudos to him for hitting "pay dirt".

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    Re: Michael Bourn - CLE

    Does anyone know the status of Cleveland's minor league pitching. Any potential down there that might make an appearance this year? Not that it'd be enough to really make that push that their rotation needs... although, stranger things have happened.


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