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Thread: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

  1. #91
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    score more early runs, less worry about the opposing team's bullpen.
    It also pretty much forces the other team to switch pitchers whether they want to or not. It is good to make the other team react and adapt rather than letting them dictate the terms to us.

    Make them take out the starting pitcher and burn their LOOGY early in the game and force them to use their weakest relief pitchers rather than letting their starter go deep into the game and then use their tough lefty specialist against Votto and Bruce in the 7th or 8th inning before bringing in their closer.

    Against a right-handed starting pitcher it makes perfect sense to have Choo, Votto, then Bruce lead off the game in the first inning. It is a great chance to bury the opponent in a hole early, then when those three lefties come up again the opponent is likely to switch pitchers early in the game, which means the Reds will be into their bullpen in the middle innings and facing their middle relievers, which is always a good thing because those guys are middle relievers for a reason -- they are not very good pitchers.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 02-20-2013 at 07:38 PM.

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  4. #92
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    This thread confuses me. I'll admit, I haven't been following the ongoing analysis of batting orders like I should, but can someone explain when batting middle of the order hitters 1-2-3 became the vogue thing to do?

  5. #93
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    This thread confuses me. I'll admit, I haven't been following the ongoing analysis of batting orders like I should, but can someone explain when batting middle of the order hitters 1-2-3 became the vogue thing to do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I've always wanted Bruce in the 2 hole.

    More PAs than in the five slot.
    More fastballs hitting in front of Votto.

    I want the three best offensive players on the team coming up in the first inning. Right now that's Choo, Bruce, and Votto.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #94
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    score more early runs, less worry about the opposing team's bullpen.
    In this I agree wholeheartedly. It aggravates the **** out of me when Dusty refuses to put a few lefties in a row against a righthanded starting pitcher because he's worrying about what they "might" be able to do to us in the late innigs with a LH reliever.

  7. #95
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    It also pretty much forces the other team to switch pitchers whether they want to or not. It is good to make the other team react and adapt rather than letting them dictate the terms to us.

    Make them take out the starting pitcher and burn their LOOGY early in the game and force them to use their weakest relief pitchers rather than letting their starter go deep into the game and then use their tough lefty specialist against Votto and Bruce in the 7th or 8th inning before bringing in their closer.

    Against a right-handed starting pitcher it makes perfect sense to have Choo, Votto, then Bruce lead off the game in the first inning. It is a great chance to bury the opponent in a hole early, then when those three lefties come up again the opponent is likely to switch pitchers early in the game, which means the Reds will be into their bullpen in the middle innings and facing their middle relievers, which is always a good thing because those guys are middle relievers for a reason -- they are not very good pitchers.
    Totally agree.

  8. #96
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    This thread confuses me. I'll admit, I haven't been following the ongoing analysis of batting orders like I should, but can someone explain when batting middle of the order hitters 1-2-3 became the vogue thing to do?
    Don't worry about it, there's zero chance of it happening.

  9. #97
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Don't worry about it, there's zero chance of it happening.
    Sadly, only too true

  10. #98
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    Sadly, only too true
    If I had more patience to debate this, I would ask the utility of hitting three lefties in a row -- followed by five (usually six) righties in a row.

    It seems to me to make it very easy for the opposition to set up its pitching in the late innings.

    I think before you decide on hitters one, two and three -- you have to see which guys remain to hit four, five, six, seven, and eight.

    Of course, some posters think lefty/righty matchups are irrelevant. I strongly disagree with that, but it seems to be an opinion some have.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-20-2013 at 09:21 PM.

  11. #99
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    This thread confuses me. I'll admit, I haven't been following the ongoing analysis of batting orders like I should, but can someone explain when batting middle of the order hitters 1-2-3 became the vogue thing to do?
    It isn't. What intrigues me is that one of the most common complaints is that we need to get more OBP in front of Votto. Unless the lower OBP is coming from Jay, then all previous rules fly out the window.

  12. #100
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It isn't. What intrigues me is that one of the most common complaints is that we need to get more OBP in front of Votto. Unless the lower OBP is coming from Jay, then all previous rules fly out the window.
    Jay Bruce career OBP .330
    BP's OBP as a Red .329
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #101
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Jay Bruce career OBP .330
    BP's OBP as a Red .329
    But you weren't saying you want Bruce over BP. You said you've always wanted Bruce there.

    Someone needs to knock in the guy with the highest OBP on the team.

  14. #102
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    But you weren't saying you want Bruce over BP. You said you've always wanted Bruce there.

    Someone needs to knock in the guy with the highest OBP on the team.

    I like OBP and power in the two slot, always have.


    Let me rephrase: I like OBP/SLG in EVERY slot, always have.


    I want the three best offensive players on the team coming up in the first inning. Right now that's Choo, Bruce, and Votto.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  15. #103
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    But you weren't saying you want Bruce over BP. You said you've always wanted Bruce there.

    Someone needs to knock in the guy with the highest OBP on the team.
    That's why Votto should bat second and Bruce should hit fourth...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  16. #104
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Votto vs LH pitching last three years: .302 .407 .506

    I do not care if they bring a LOOGY in to face him..

    Bruce vs LH pitching last three years: .247 .322 .495
    Not as good, but he still punishes them with power.

    I'd have zero problem batting them back to back
    Last edited by TRF; 02-21-2013 at 09:38 AM.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  18. #105
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    Re: Brandon Phillips Batting 2nd

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Votto vs LH pitching last three years: .302 .407 .506

    I do not care if they bring a LOOGY in to face him..

    Bruce vs LH pitching last three years: .247 .322 .495
    Not as good, but he still punishes them with power.

    I'd have zero problem batting them back to back
    I'm sorry, forgive me, I can't figure out what numbers you are providing. Just don't know what the numbers represent.

    Generally, Votto has been better against righties (although better v. lefties in 2011), but is obviously excellent against all pitching.

    Bruce may "punish lefties with power" but he hit .225 against lefties, .754 OPS last year, and struck out 56 times in 194 PAs against lefties. Lifetime .231 hitter against lefties and .747 OPS, with 233 Ks in 837 PAs.

    OBP, against lefties, Bruce last year was .304. Lifetime is .310. These numbers would affect his hitting second against LHP.

    For a left handed power hitter, Bruce is fine against lefties, but there is no compelling case for him to hit cleanup against them. For that matter, there is no compelling case for him to hit second against them.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-21-2013 at 01:33 PM.


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