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Thread: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

  1. #31
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    If only it were that easy. Thats what it takes to be a good relief pitcher. To be a good starting pitcher requires constant study of the game. It means long hours going over film and game planning.

    I do, however, believe Bryan Price has what it takes to keep his mind in the game while he's on the mound, and in the video room
    If you throw high 90's with a wicked slider and a TBD quality change and you can hit the catchers glove, you will be a good starting pitcher. The constant study of the game and the players will help said player become and elite starting pitcher. Much in the fashion a guy like Verlander goes from being good to great after a few years in the league after really understand more about "pitching" than "throwing".

    Bronson Arroyo can't just get away with "throwing" he has to "pitch". Chapman can just "throw" for the time being, provide value, and learn how to pitch later.

    The main adjustment he needs to make to convert to a starter is endurance. And from what I hear he trains hard and is a freakish athlete.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 02-19-2013 at 05:35 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  3. #32
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    No offense, but anyone disparaging this article comes across a bit like "I have my head buried in the sand."

    We all love the Missile. Let's not pretend as though there aren't concerns about his character.

  4. #33
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    No offense, but anyone disparaging this article comes across a bit like "I have my head buried in the sand."

    We all love the Missile. Let's not pretend as though there aren't concerns about his character.
    I agree. If any U.S. born and raised player got 5 speeding tickets in the offseason, one during the regular season and had the stripper issue, you know people would be wary. The fact that he doesn't speak English well has been a saving grace on that front.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  5. #34
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    No offense, but anyone disparaging this article comes across a bit like "I have my head buried in the sand."

    We all love the Missile. Let's not pretend as though there aren't concerns about his character.
    This article definitely made me uneasy, more than anything else. "Awesome" is not an adjective I would have applied at any point.

    The appearance of a coverup by the front office is troubling. Not knowing because the player wants privacy is one thing. Not knowing because the team doesn't want us to know is quite another. Why aren't the beat writers asking if there might be some kind of bolt from the blue revelation that affects his status with the team?
    /r/reds

  6. #35
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    I just don't think the article connected the dots all that well.

    IMO, Chapman pitched like a veteran last season, dominating in tough situations. That stoic appearance as a reliever is likely what you'll see as a starter. And, if he is that stoic, there shouldn't be any concerns about his "nerves".

    Is he perfect?

    Far from it.

    However, once upon a time, I remember a 1,000+ post thread about Votto's "mental issues". He's a kid, IMO. Much ado about nothing.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  7. #36
    Member wlf WV's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    I just know how mentality has affected Homer Bailey,and he seemed to have family support.

    Apples and oranges are in the same food group.
    May the Lord bless

  8. #37
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    David Letterman gets speeding tickets practically every day on his way to work, but he's still a darn fine late night talk show host.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #38
    Salukifan2
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    If you throw high 90's with a wicked slider and a TBD quality change and you can hit the catchers glove, you will be a good starting pitcher. The constant study of the game and the players will help said player become and elite starting pitcher. Much in the fashion a guy like Verlander goes from being good to great after a few years in the league after really understand more about "pitching" than "throwing".

    Bronson Arroyo can't just get away with "throwing" he has to "pitch". Chapman can just "throw" for the time being, provide value, and learn how to pitch later.

    The main adjustment he needs to make to convert to a starter is endurance. And from what I hear he trains hard and is a freakish athlete.
    For real? You are saying that al chapman has to do is go out there and throw wicked sliders. You cant just whip out 30 or more wicked sliders as a starter. You continue to describe the demeanor and pitching style of a reliever, not a starter.

    If thats all it takes then why doesnt dontrelle willis still have a job? If he comes out and just "throws" as a starter, not only will he get rocked but his elbow will probably implode.
    Last edited by Salukifan2; 02-19-2013 at 09:26 PM.

  10. #39
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    For real? You are saying that al chapman has to do is go out there and throw wicked sliders. You cant just whip out 30 or more wicked sliders as a starter. You continue to describe the demeanor and pitching style of a reliever, not a starter.

    If thats all it takes then why doesnt dontrelle willis still have a job? If he comes out and just "throws" as a starter, not only will he get rocked but his elbow will probably implode.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...on=P#pitchtype

    These numbers would tell me otherwise. From 2002-2009 Randy Johnson averaged 38.6 sliders per 100 pitches. In fact in 2004 he nearly threw as many sliders as fastballs. This is an example that you can whip out 30 or more sliders as a starter.

    I mentioned Aroldis has a high 90's fastball, and wicked slider, and a change-up that nobody really knows how good it is. Take a combination of those three pitches, if you can hit the catcher's glove where it is located, you do not need a deep mental capacity of the game to be successful. Quality of pitches and location will be enough.

    Dontrelle Willis does not have a job because he threw high 80's with a solid slider and a lack of accuracy. There is a big difference between high 90's, a better slider, and hitting the glove.

    What would cause his elbow to implode by "throwing" instead of "pitching"? The physical processes are equivalent, there is just a difference in the mental strategy behind the two.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  11. #40
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    If thats all it takes then why doesnt dontrelle willis still have a job? If he comes out and just "throws" as a starter, not only will he get rocked but his elbow will probably implode.
    Mind if I submit this to the Charleston County 13th Annual 'Most Absurd Comparisons Imaginable' contest?

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  13. #41
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...on=P#pitchtype

    These numbers would tell me otherwise. From 2002-2009 Randy Johnson averaged 38.6 sliders per 100 pitches. In fact in 2004 he nearly threw as many sliders as fastballs. This is an example that you can whip out 30 or more sliders as a starter.

    I mentioned Aroldis has a high 90's fastball, and wicked slider, and a change-up that nobody really knows how good it is. Take a combination of those three pitches, if you can hit the catcher's glove where it is located, you do not need a deep mental capacity of the game to be successful. Quality of pitches and location will be enough.

    Dontrelle Willis does not have a job because he threw high 80's with a solid slider and a lack of accuracy. There is a big difference between high 90's, a better slider, and hitting the glove.

    What would cause his elbow to implode by "throwing" instead of "pitching"? The physical processes are equivalent, there is just a difference in the mental strategy behind the two.
    Throwing, is what he did out of the bullpen. Get on the mound, throw it 103 mph. Pitching is what matt latos and Johnny Cueto do. Both of them could live at 95 but know they aren't at their best if they choose to do so. All chapman has ever done is throw hard and harder. There is a very big difference between a bullpen slider being effective and a starting slider. You almost never have to throw a breaking ball for a strike if youre a closer and generally youre advised not to. That is not the case for a starter. Here is where Chappy will have to learn how to "pitch." He won't have 16+ k/9 as a starter and if he tries to, he will be in trouble.

    And back to what I originally said, every starting pitcher, no matter their ability, must put in the off-mound hours. Going over tape, studying hitters. The reds aren't just looking for him to be adequate this year, they want him to possibly be an elite starter. That comes from hard work off the field.

  14. #42
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I agree. If any U.S. born and raised player got 5 speeding tickets in the offseason, one during the regular season and had the stripper issue, you know people would be wary. The fact that he doesn't speak English well has been a saving grace on that front.
    That's not comparing apples to apples though. U.S. born plays have spent their entire life of the freedom of the United State. Chapman just got here and he was handed millions upon arrival.

    It's not like he's the first professional athlete to deal with maturity issues. Look at Patrick Kane.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  15. #43
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Throwing, is what he did out of the bullpen. Get on the mound, throw it 103 mph. Pitching is what matt latos and Johnny Cueto do. Both of them could live at 95 but know they aren't at their best if they choose to do so. All chapman has ever done is throw hard and harder. There is a very big difference between a bullpen slider being effective and a starting slider. You almost never have to throw a breaking ball for a strike if youre a closer and generally youre advised not to. That is not the case for a starter. Here is where Chappy will have to learn how to "pitch." He won't have 16+ k/9 as a starter and if he tries to, he will be in trouble.

    And back to what I originally said, every starting pitcher, no matter their ability, must put in the off-mound hours. Going over tape, studying hitters. The reds aren't just looking for him to be adequate this year, they want him to possibly be an elite starter. That comes from hard work off the field.
    So you think Chapman dropping his BB/9 from 7.4 in 2011 to 2.9 in 2012 was just by going out and throwing as hard as he could and not pitching? Or do you think Chapman put some work into his craft?
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  17. #44
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Oh no. Chapman has definitely worked on his craft to become a lights out closer. But to suggest that all he has to do to be a successful major league starter is throw hard and hit the glove (which btw is so much easier said than done) is imo selling the position of SP a little short.

  18. #45
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    Re: AWESOME article on Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Oh no. Chapman has definitely worked on his craft to become a lights out closer. But to suggest that all he has to do to be a successful major league starter is throw hard and hit the glove (which btw is so much easier said than done) is imo selling the position of SP a little short.
    Just throw hard and hit the glove was standing out to me too. Like it's really that easy. MLB hitters lay in wait and prey on the mistake pitch. All a pitcher has to do is miss the target (location or velocity) by a little bit and they're all over it.

    The more they see a guy (live and on video), the more in tune they get with patterns and tendencies and the more their confidence grows. Velocity means very little. Even MLB hitters late in the lineup can time a jumbo jet if they've seen it enough.

    Not too mention what elite hitters can do. Remember Albert turning around that Chapman 102 mph fastball like it was BP when he got challenged?


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