One year with an Electric Car

[JaxRed]

I follow most Tesla items fairly closely. I think Elon Musk is perhaps the most interesting person on the planet. That said, I read a article last week that was saying the patent thing at this point was not much of a factor for folks.

The next big impact for Tesla might be the Gigafactory. A Gigafacory is a massive battery factory Telsa is building with Panasonic. It may drop the cost of batteries significantly.

[Beltway]

The Gigafactory could be a game changer. I'm also looking forward to the Model E.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/03/te...-with-model-e/

[Ravenlord]

I would like to have an electric car, but it's just not feasible. into Cincinnati 1-4 times a week (70+ mile round trip), up to my in-laws twice a week (40 mile round trip), and to various (mostly state) parks to forage. until battery range increases significantly, Toyota is my friend. as a side note, I can't imagine only driving a thousand miles in a primary vehicle in one month.

[JaxRed]

I would like to have an electric car, but it's just not feasible. into Cincinnati 1-4 times a week (70+ mile round trip), up to my in-laws twice a week (40 mile round trip), and to various (mostly state) parks to forage. until battery range increases significantly, Toyota is my friend. as a side note, I can't imagine only driving a thousand miles in a primary vehicle in one month.

The Leaf definitely would not work as your primary car. The Tesla would......but it's pretty expensive. I bet you 75% of Leaf owners have a second vehicle.

[kpresidente]

I follow most Tesla items fairly closely. I think Elon Musk is perhaps the most interesting person on the planet. That said, I read a article last week that was saying the patent thing at this point was not much of a factor for folks.

The next big impact for Tesla might be the Gigafactory. A Gigafacory is a massive battery factory Telsa is building with Panasonic. It may drop the cost of batteries significantly.

I find it interesting that he released the patents just as Toyota announces that they'll be shipping the first mass-produced hydrogen fuel cell car next year, which doesn't suffer from the range issues that plague electrics.

[JaxRed]

I find no significance in that at all. Musk wanted to build a game-changing automobile. So I sure he studied both technologies before deciding which to pursue. Hydrogen's problem is that it requires a whole new expensive infrastructure to support it. One of the reasons they are selling more and more plugins of all types is that you can refuel at home. You can't do that with Hydrogen.

And the range on the Hydrogen car will be almost exactly that of a Tesla. Except there are almost no fueling stations for the Hydrogen.

I will be shocked if Hydrogen sells 10% of what electric does within the next decade.

[JaxRed]

Time for another update on things. December will be 3 years. I just went over 48,444 miles. I just lost my fourth bar of capacity (of out 12) and will qualify for brand new batteries. Should be done about December 1st. This is almost like getting a new car. On a pure electric like the Leaf, there are far fewer "systems".

The latest on the Nissan Leaf front: The replacement batteries have been on sale recently for about $4,650. Not sure if that's a permanent reduction, but I suspect it is.

The 2016's should come out any day now and they will have an option for a 30kwh battery. Current one is 24kwh. That should push actual range to just over 100 miles. This is still the 1st Gen Leaf. 2017 seems to be when the Gen 2 Leaf will hit with revised styling and a supposed 200 mile range.

Chevy Volt just released their Gen 2 Volt that now gets 53 miles of all-electric before falling into gas mode. (Gen 1 did 38). Gen 2 uses regular gas, Gen 1 used Premium. Ford has a C-Max Energi that does 21 miles before kicking over to gas, and Prius has a version that does 11 miles.

Let me say, that for anyone (especially those with another car) that has thought about an electric car, used Leafs are being given away. Here's an example of a nice 2012 Leaf SV with 17K miles and $10,000 price http://www.automaxatlanta.com/invent...an&_model=leaf

Not quite as good a deal on used Volts here's one 2013 34K miles, and $14,000.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...13972565&Log=0

And a Ford C-Max Energi $13,000 and 40,000 mile

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...07320605&Log=0

[Sea Ray]

Time for another update on things. December will be 3 years. I just went over 48,444 miles. I just lost my fourth bar of capacity (of out 12) and will qualify for brand new batteries. Should be done about December 1st. This is almost like getting a new car. On a pure electric like the Leaf, there are far fewer "systems".

The latest on the Nissan Leaf front: The replacement batteries have been on sale recently for about $4,650. Not sure if that's a permanent reduction, but I suspect it is.

The 2016's should come out any day now and they will have an option for a 30kwh battery. Current one is 24kwh. That should push actual range to just over 100 miles. This is still the 1st Gen Leaf. 2017 seems to be when the Gen 2 Leaf will hit with revised styling and a supposed 200 mile range.

Chevy Volt just released their Gen 2 Volt that now gets 53 miles of all-electric before falling into gas mode. (Gen 1 did 38). Gen 2 uses regular gas, Gen 1 used Premium. Ford has a C-Max Energi that does 21 miles before kicking over to gas, and Prius has a version that does 11 miles.

Let me say, that for anyone (especially those with another car) that has thought about an electric car, used Leafs are being given away. Here's an example of a nice 2012 Leaf SV with 17K miles and $10,000 price http://www.automaxatlanta.com/invent...an&_model=leaf

Not quite as good a deal on used Volts here's one 2013 34K miles, and $14,000.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...13972565&Log=0

And a Ford C-Max Energi $13,000 and 40,000 mile

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...07320605&Log=0

So what's the warranty on these batteries? How is it spelled out?

[JaxRed]

I have no idea on the cars that aren't Leafs. But the ones that aren't (Volt, Prius Plug-in, I-Miev, BMW I-3, Ford C-Max Energi), have not had problems with batteries that have made any news. The Leaf did, in southern tier states on the first gen of batteries (2011-2014).

All Leaf Batteries are covered for workmanship/defects till 100K, and for capacity till 60K. The new 30Kwh batteries are warranted are for capacity till 100K miles.

The replacement batteries and all new batteries are a new heat-resistant chemistry that has been tested since 2013 and is in 100% of 2015/2016 Leafs, and have been found to fix the problem of capacity loss.

[Sea Ray]

I have no idea on the cars that aren't Leafs. But the ones that aren't (Volt, Prius Plug-in, I-Miev, BMW I-3, Ford C-Max Energi), have not had problems with batteries that have made any news. The Leaf did, in southern tier states on the first gen of batteries (2011-2014).

All Leaf Batteries are covered for workmanship/defects till 100K, and for capacity till 60K. The new 30Kwh batteries are warranted are for capacity till 100K miles.

The replacement batteries and all new batteries are a new heat-resistant chemistry that has been tested since 2013 and is in 100% of 2015/2016 Leafs, and have been found to fix the problem of capacity loss.

I'm thinking that it's the batteries that's causing the huge loss in resale value on these cars or is it something else? Weren't they about $40K or so minus a tax break new?

[Slyder]

I'm thinking that it's the batteries that's causing the huge loss in resale value on these cars or is it something else? Weren't they about $40K or so minus a tax break new?

I've heard a few stories that if anything breaks on electric cars its a pain in the arse to find let alone fix because you have so few mechanics who will even touch them.

[JaxRed]

I'm thinking that it's the batteries that's causing the huge loss in resale value on these cars or is it something else? Weren't they about $40K or so minus a tax break new?

I think the resale loss is mostly a factor of two things.

1) New Leaf prices have come down significantly since I bought. Like about $6,000 for the comparable model.

2) Most importantly, Nissan came out with a "budget" version ( S model) in 2013 that costs about $21,500 after the federal tax rebate. A LOT of people started leasing the S model in 2013. When you lease, the rebate is rolled into the lease so everyone qualifies regardless of their tax status. And the lease costs on the Model S were crazy low. Like $199. Well, those leased 2 year old Leafs are starting to hit the resale market in waves. Nissan has even started offering $5,000 off the end-of-purchase price in the contract to hopefully convince them to purchase their leased Leaf. But most are opting for totally new leases or letting the car go, and purchasing a different used Leaf for less.

So couple low prices on new vehicles with a flood of vehicles coming off lease and a niche market..... and you have a buyers market for anyone wanting to pick up a Leaf at GREAT prices.

[JaxRed]

I've heard a few stories that if anything breaks on electric cars its a pain in the arse to find let alone fix because you have so few mechanics who will even touch them.

I suspect most people are like me and would only take their electric car to a authorized dealer.

But still hypothetical.... I've had the car 4 years and 48,000 miles and nothing has needed repair. Electric cars are MUCH simpler mechanically.

[JaxRed]

Another update. Not too much new. We did get the new batteries, which is like getting a new car. We're well over 65,000 miles now I think. The wife still works (while I sleep in....retired), and she now drives the Leaf. Still nothing has ever gone wrong with it, and there's no maintenance to speak of.

Volt came out with a 2nd generation. And Chevy created an all-electric car of their own the Bolt. Just now hitting the streets. And Leaf is still on generation one with only rumors of what is to come. I almost wonder if they are really going to have a second generation.

[goreds2]

I have not read this entire thread. How much less miles do you get on a full battery when using the air conditioner?