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Thread: One year with an Electric Car

  1. #16
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Nissan came out with the announcement that the LEAF will have the same battery warranty as the Volt at 8 years or 100,000 miles.
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  3. #17
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    What are the limits on technological advancement for electric cars?

    I mean, in the mid-90's when the first computers with 1GB hard drives hit the market that seemed out of this world.

    I know we are dealing with energy here, not gigabytes, but is it possible in 20 years electric cars/trucks will be able to go for 300-400 miles and beyond?

  4. #18
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Yep, battery technology is the key. In 1982 I bought a Commodore 64 for the unheard of low price of $595. If I remember correctly the 64 stood for 64K....

    So how quickly will the technology brings things down, and will something else be better (like CNG)?

    The Tesla will already go 300 miles but it has more/bigger batteries and a bigger price

  5. #19
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    The company intends to notify current owners and dealers early next year that it will make the warranty retroactive to cover all existing Leafs, offering to repair or replace the carís lithium-ion battery if it loses more than 30 percent of its ability to hold a charge after five years or 60,000 miles.

    Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz2LXtwBapW
    Well, that will give peace of mind to the buyers of new Leafs but it mentions nothing of buyers of used cars. If I buy a $40K car, I expect it to go 200k miles without too much trouble. Not knowing what the situation is after 60K miles on a Leaf, I'd not touch that with a ten ft pole as a used car buyer

  6. #20
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Yep, battery technology is the key. In 1982 I bought a Commodore 64 for the unheard of low price of $595. If I remember correctly the 64 stood for 64K....

    So how quickly will the technology brings things down, and will something else be better (like CNG)?

    The Tesla will already go 300 miles but it has more/bigger batteries and a bigger price
    And bigger "issues". Tesla has a $40K Achilles Heel:

    http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-mo...design-problem

    Hopefully these are all just growing pains of an emerging technology but I'm not tempted to buy one at this point.

  7. #21
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    That story has been debunked. A Tesla can sit unplugged for months and months. Tesla's blog says about 12 months.

    The only way to do that is pretty much if you are TRYING to damage the car.

    It's kind of like the recent story where a NY Times reporter takes a Tesla out on a overnight trip, only to run out of juice. A trip many others have duplicated without problem. Turns out the NY Times guy did all kinds of things to sabotage the trip. Like not plugging in the car overnight.

  8. #22
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    That story has been debunked. A Tesla can sit unplugged for months and months. Tesla's blog says about 12 months.

    The only way to do that is pretty much if you are TRYING to damage the car.

    It's kind of like the recent story where a NY Times reporter takes a Tesla out on a overnight trip, only to run out of juice. A trip many others have duplicated without problem. Turns out the NY Times guy did all kinds of things to sabotage the trip. Like not plugging in the car overnight.
    What if you're in a fender bender accident? Seems to me that if someone rear ends you and the $40K battery is the floorboard, you've got a serious problem.

    As for the Leaf, its limitations scream for a lease. Seeing as re-sale is up in the air and as you say miles are limited by the technology, it'd be one of the only cars I'd ever think lease first

  9. #23
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    That's why I said I would probably do a 2013 Lease if I had to do it all again. But I would definitely get one.

  10. #24
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    That's why I said I would probably do a 2013 Lease if I had to do it all again. But I would definitely get one.
    The big advantage one gets with a lease for an electric car is that there is a big tax break you get from buying one. In a lease, the dealer gets the break and just subtracts that from the overall price of the car when figuring out the lease rate.

    So, if the car retails for $40,000, the dealer gets a $7500 tax break and figures out the lease price based on a $32,500 value for the car. That can take $50-100 off the monthly lease payment, depending on how your work out your deal.

    Btw, thanks for a very informative thread.
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  11. #25
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    You're absolutely right on your lease information. And there are so many variables, and each on the variables is a chance for the dealer to screw you over. One thing that pushed a few more people to lease is the nature of that tax credit. If your total tax bill (not your refund, the amount of taxes you owed) was less than $7500 then your tax credit was reduced. So if your total taxes were $4,000 then $4,000 was your credit. If you lease you can take advantage of the credit no matter your tax.

    Because I got the credit, the $40,000 (after taxes, etc.) Leaf really cost me $32,500. So when we are discussing costs, that's the real figure for me.

    Since the cost of the Leaf is dropping $4,000 (it's more like 4 not the 6 I mentioned), the same model this year has a net of about $28,000, and the cheapest at $28,800 has a net of $21,300.

    And some states have a rebate on top of that to drive down the cost even more. California is $2500 and Georgia is $5,000.

  12. #26
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    double post
    Last edited by JaxRed; 02-25-2013 at 01:11 AM.

  13. #27
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    What are the limits on technological advancement for electric cars?

    I mean, in the mid-90's when the first computers with 1GB hard drives hit the market that seemed out of this world.

    I know we are dealing with energy here, not gigabytes, but is it possible in 20 years electric cars/trucks will be able to go for 300-400 miles and beyond?
    That would presummably be the goal.

  14. #28
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    I was watching a show on the Science Channel a few months ago called Futurecar. They had some amazing electric cars on there that people are developing, including some sporty looking high performance cars. The way technology is changing these days, it might not be too many years before they become a little less niche and even affordable for the average person. Right now, $40k is a bit above the price range for quite a few folks.
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  15. #29
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Thought I might do a follow-up. I've now had the car for 2.5 years and am over 33,000 miles. All the news over the last couple years has been about that battery and the trouble that was brewing in Phoenix spread throughout the South from Phoenix to Jacksonville (spoiler alert).

    When the heat starting reducing battery capacity, Nissan's first reaction wasn't a good one. They said that the battery warranty of 8 years or 100,000 miles only covered defects and workmanship and not loss of capacity which they considered normal. Two things started happening: Lawyers started suing, and Nissan started actually working with customer groups. The lawsuits were settled by Nissan adding a provision to the warranty that if you fell below 70% capacity (9 bars) within 60,000 miles and 5 years, they would ensure they kept you above 70%. (9 bars).

    They also failed to announce a price for replacement batteries as promised, and they announced an absolutely terrible battery leasing program that would cost $100 a month forever, and if you ever stopped paying Nissan could confiscate the batteries. It was a nightmare of a plan and hated by about 99% of customers.

    That was about a year ago. Nissan did a few good things after that.

    1) They said "OK we see the $100 a month plan stinks, give us some time to come up with a different plan"
    2) They went they extra mile on batteries that fell below 70%. All customers that fell below 9 bars got totally free/new batteries
    3) They started working on a "heat resistant" battery, known to the customers (but not Nissan) as the "lizard battery".

    It took about 14 months but Nissan has finally come thru on almost everything.

    This week they announced that replacement batteries would be $5,500 plus labor (a price everyone was happy with), and they announced that 2015's which are starting to show up, have the Lizard Battery!
    They said they are tweaking the $100 lease program and will release details later but you will own the battery not Nissan.

    About 95% of people are VERY pleased. Here's how it affects me (cause it's all about me). I lost my first bar of capacity around June of 2013, and then lost my 2nd bar in April 2014. At this point, it looks like I will lose my fourth bar before 60,000 and get a totally new, Lizard Battery pack!! Let's say that happens at 50,000 miles, and maybe I won't need a replacement for another 40,000/50,000 miles. And then if I choose to buy a 3rd pack it's $5500 max.

    At this point I'm feeling much, much better about things. The car is still a wonder to drive, and has so many fewer things that can go wrong on it, I feel like I can drive this a long time. And that big payment? I pulled money out of IRA's and paid that sucker off 2 weeks ago. Now I'm riding for "free".
    Last edited by JaxRed; 06-29-2014 at 01:19 AM.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

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  17. #30
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: One year with an Electric Car

    Good report Jax. Hopefully with Tesla releasing their patents, Nissan can use some of the info to improve their electric cars/batteries.


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