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Thread: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

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  1. #1
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Interesting post by David Schoenfield at ESPN. Here's an excerpt:

    So who is Billy Hamilton? His minor league résumé so far is more impressive than the résumés of [Vince] Coleman or Otis Nixon or [Willie] Wilson (or Esix Snead!), but less impressive than those of [Lenny] Dykstra or [Rickey] Henderson or [Tim] Raines. As long as Hamilton stays within himself, draws his walks, hits the ball on the ground and hustles out his doubles and triples, he should develop into a better player than Coleman. I think the upside here is the young Wilson, who learned to hit at the major league level. Wilson had the advantage back then of playing on turf, so I don't know if Hamilton will contend for batting titles, but he's not just a speed guy. He can play baseball.
    Apparently we've got a young Willie Wilson on our hands.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  2. #2
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    "The young Wilson" might sound underwhelming until you realize this is the stat line he put up in 1980:

    .326 / .357 / .421, 230 hits, 133 runs, 15 triples and 79 stolen bases

    If that's who Billy is, the Reds are in really good shape at leadoff!
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    "The young Wilson" might sound underwhelming until you realize this is the stat line he put up in 1980:

    .326 / .357 / .421, 230 hits, 133 runs, 15 triples and 79 stolen bases

    If that's who Billy is, the Reds are in really good shape at leadoff!
    That would be awesome if Hamilton's production was close to Wilson's. My comp, though, is Otis Nixon. They share the same career arc (infielders converted to outfield at AAA, fast, not much power) and have the same build. But I'm not one to project the success or failure of a player based on the stats of another player. It'll definitely be interesting seeing what Hamilton can do for himself.
    Sabermetrics can be boiled down to this simple truism: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

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    Member RedsfaninMT's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    As a teenager, going to Reds game at Riverfront, my very favorite thing was watching Joe Morgan absolutely disrupt the rhythm of the game, time after time. My dad would always comment on the imaginary line that Joe had off of first and when he hit it, he was off to the races. The stadium was absolutely electric waiting for Joe to run, and I have no doubt it added to the numbers of Bench, Perez and Foster, who followed in the order.

    IF Hamilton can get on base, you bat him lead off and let him stress the heck out of the infielders. Ten pick off throws to first followed by an errant throw and Hamilton is suddenly on 3rd. The key question remains if he can get on base.

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    That would be awesome if Hamilton's production was close to Wilson's. My comp, though, is Otis Nixon. They share the same career arc (infielders converted to outfield at AAA, fast, not much power) and have the same build. But I'm not one to project the success or failure of a player based on the stats of another player. It'll definitely be interesting seeing what Hamilton can do for himself.
    Schoenfield mentions Nixon in the post, actually. He makes the case that Hamilton is a better player -- or at least projects to be a better one.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Schoenfield mentions Nixon in the post, actually. He makes the case that Hamilton is a better player -- or at least projects to be a better one.
    Otis would have had a better career than he did if he hadn't snorted as much cocaine that he did.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Otis would have had a better career than he did if he hadn't snorted as much cocaine that he did.
    Hmmm... Willie Wilson was also involved in a drug scandal. What message are they saying when your two comps are both druggies.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    I'd rather Hamilton hit at the bottom of the lineup when the time comed. Don't really want him stealing bases ahead of Votto.

    YMMV
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I'd rather Hamilton hit at the bottom of the lineup when the time comed. Don't really want him stealing bases ahead of Votto.

    YMMV
    Yeah he should steal them in front of the pitcher.

    Speed is big part of offense, I prefer the havoc it can create rather than playing station to station baseball... that's what we have the AL for anyway right?

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    Spitball (02-21-2013), traderumor (02-21-2013)

  13. #10
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yeah he should steal them in front of the pitcher.

    Speed is big part of offense, I prefer the havoc it can create rather than playing station to station baseball... that's what we have the AL for anyway right?
    Put him 7th.

    He has a career SB sucess rate od 82 percent. Last year it was 81 percent. Dude was caught stealing 37 times last year.

    If he is going to attempt 40-50 SBs a season inthe bigs, sure let him lead off (assuming his OBP is good enough). If he's going to attempt 100 a year, I'd rather he did it lower in the lineup.

    Especially if the Reds somehow extend Choo.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  14. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Put him 7th.

    He has a career SB sucess rate od 82 percent. Last year it was 81 percent. Dude was caught stealing 37 times last year.

    If he is going to attempt 40-50 SBs a season inthe bigs, sure let him lead off (assuming his OBP is good enough). If he's going to attempt 100 a year, I'd rather he did it lower in the lineup.

    Especially if the Reds somehow extend Choo.
    Waste of his one main talent on a team lacking that.

  15. #12
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Waste of his one main talent on a team lacking that.
    I dunno. If he gets on base out of the 7th slot, and is able to get himself over to scoring position for the top of the lineup.

    If he's leading off, he can swipe a base in front of Phillips and Votto, but they have enough power that he would have scored from first anyway. I'd think you'd be wasting the stolen bases at the top of the lineup more than the bottom.

    But like I said, YMMV.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  16. #13
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I'd rather Hamilton hit at the bottom of the lineup when the time comed. Don't really want him stealing bases ahead of Votto.

    YMMV
    I'm hoping this is sarcasm, because I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a legitimate reason why you don't want a guy 90 feet closer to home plate when Votto is hitting.

  17. #14
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by OesterPoster View Post
    I'm hoping this is sarcasm, because I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a legitimate reason why you don't want a guy 90 feet closer to home plate when Votto is hitting.
    Because guys on first are already in scoring position when Votto is up.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  18. #15
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: "Billy Hamilton and other really fast guys"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Because guys on first are already in scoring position when Votto is up.
    I hear that a lot but what are the numbers behind that?


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