You need two catchers, and Mesoraco seems a better option (IMO) than Olivo as a backup catcher. He might, too, find some of that minor league power and become what many here on Redszone think he is.
I fail to understand how playing 40% of the time (if he hits well enough to hang onto the job) is in any way "rotting". Especially if the guy puts up a less than replacement level season.
Because you don't bring up top prospects and play them 40% of the time. They were top prospects (in baseball mind you, not just your organization where top prospect doesn't always mean the same thing) for a reason. Teams just don't bring guys up who were top 10-15 prospects in all of baseball and regulate them to back-up roles. I mean I guess Ryan Howard did that, but let's be fair, Ryan Hanigan is no Jim Thome (who was smacking 40+ home runs with the Phillies). Is there another guy like that in the last 15 years who was as highly touted as Mesoraco at the time he was called up and then just sat 60% of the time from the start?
I'll take the blame for not making myslef clear.
Here's what I think.
I'm not for trading prospects because I think the Reds don't value them enough. I'm for using prospects in the best way they help the team. Sometimes that means playing them over "established" players. Sometimes that means stashing them for later, and sometimes that means trading them.
In Mes' case, I don't think there is anything more he can do in AAA. If the Reds think that Hannigan is the answer at catcher the next season or two than fine. But that leaves what to do with Mes. I had the opinion last year that Mes would struggle in the back up role. He had been the best player on every team he ever played on going back to t-ball. Not everyone can handle being a back up. I couldn't when I played, so I quit. The reds are going to contend for the next few years, if Mes is going to be a back up, I'd assume trade him for need. If this is going to be the big chance for the title, and with Choo in for one year this would seem to be, I'd go all in.
Same with Hamilton. As opposed to Mes, I think the Reds have done an excellent job developing, and hyping, Hamilton. That being said, I can easily see him becoming Corey Patterson or Willy Taveras. His biggest asset to the team may be in helping being someone else in.
Reds relievers with at least 30 innings pitched on the season splits with each catcher
Non-intentional walk rates: 9.1% and 9.2%
Strikeout rates: 26.4% and 27.2%
Number of pitchers with a better ERA for each guy? 4 and 3.
ERA of each catcher when not accounting for Chapman (Hanigan had a large advantage in innings with Chapman, where as everyone else had a much closer split with each)? 3.22 and 3.03
Care to guess at which catcher is which?
remdog (03-10-2013)
I went top 25 to find enough actual bats to form a sample size. About half of the prospective hitters were used less than full-time as prospects once they first made a big league roster.
By year:
2007
Cameron Maybin-- Two years of part-time play before becoming a full-time starter
Brandon Wood-- Never became a full-time starter
Andy LaRoche-- Never became a full-time starter
Fernando Martinez-- Never became a full-time starter
Reid Brignac-- Part-time player for a year, then full-time for a short time.
2008
Travis Snider-- Part-time player his entire career
Matt LaPorta-- Part-time his first year, then struggles as a platoon-player
Jordan Schaffer-- Part-timer
2009
Pedro Alvarez-- Part-timer for two years before becoming a full-timer last year
Lars Andersen-- Part-timer
2010
Giancarlo Stanton-- Part-timer his first year, then full-timer and All-Star after that.
Dom Brown-- Part-timer his entire career
Logan Morrison-- Part-timer his first year
Ryan Westmoreland-- Part-timer
Brett Wallace-- Part-timer
2011
Lonne Chisenhall--Part-timer his first two years
Dee Gordon-- Part-timer his first two years.
Before that, it's even more apparent. Prospects almost always earn their playing time.
Young catchers are an odd bunch, not many get in there every day, pretending that's so is essentially a falsehood.
Last 3 years
2011Code:GAMES G AGE 1 Wilin Rosario 105 23 2 Salvador Perez 74 22 3 Derek Norris 58 23 T4 Jesus Montero 56 22 T4 Hector Sanchez 56 22 6 Yasmani Grandal 55 23 7 Devin Mesoraco 53 24 T8 Ryan Lavarnway 28 24 T8 Rob Brantly 28 22 10 Wilson Ramos 24 24 11 Sandy Leon 12 23 12 Yan Gomes 9 24 13 Hank Conger 7 24 14 Bryan Holaday 6 24 15 Chris Herrmann 3 24 T16 Tim Federowicz 2 24 T16 Ali Solis 2 24
2010Code:SEASON 2011 C AGE < 25 AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria GAMES G AGE 1 Alex Avila 133 24 2 Wilson Ramos 108 23 3 Josh Thole 102 24 4 Hank Conger 56 23 5 Buster Posey 41 24 6 Salvador Perez 39 21 7 Tony Cruz 20 24 8 Devin Mesoraco 16 23 9 Wilin Rosario 14 22 10 Hector Sanchez 11 21 T11 Ryan Lavarnway 8 23 T11 Austin Romine 8 22 13 Tim Federowicz 7 23 T14 Manuel Pina 4 24 T14 Welington Castillo 4 24 T16 Martin Maldonado 3 24 T16 Jesus Montero 3 21
Code:SEASON 2010 C AGE < 25 AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria GAMES G AGE 1 Matt Wieters 126 24 2 Alex Avila 98 23 3 Francisco Cervelli 90 24 4 Lou Marson 87 24 5 Buster Posey 76 23 6 Jonathan Lucroy 75 24 7 Jason Castro 67 23 8 Josh Thole 61 23 9 Carlos Santana 40 24 10 Wilson Ramos 22 22 11 Hank Conger 10 22 T12 Bryan Anderson 8 23 T12 J.P. Arencibia 8 24 T14 Tyler Flowers 7 24 T14 Josh Donaldson 7 24 16 Welington Castillo 5 23
Catchers on winning teams are a completely different animal. Those situations does not translate across to other ones as easily.
But look at the 1997 NYY for a pretty good comparison. Though Posada didn't have the ranking that Mes does, he is/was still a pretty good catcher in his own right. And Girardi wasn't exactly crushing it in the Bronx.
Mike Stanton wasn't a part time player. He came up in the 59th game of the season for the Marlins. He played 100 games that year. Cameron Maybin was called up August 17th and then September 17th the next year. That isn't a part time player, that is a 40-man roster call up.
Some of those guys work, but some of them were never part time players. Sure, they played sparingly in September call ups, but that isn't the same thing at all.
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |