Turn Off Ads?
Page 8 of 19 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 275

Thread: Reds catching 2013 and after

  1. #106
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,172

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Then trade Mes and Hamilton.
    Why??

    The game is about the growth of the franchise. Its about winning the season... perhaps they'll play into it. They have the talent but make no mistake to win the season the Reds should not... WILL not throw away at bats and games so guys can cater to and endlessly try andc please the prospect hounds at home

    Cream rises to the top

  2. Likes:

    remdog (03-10-2013), Tony Cloninger (03-01-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #107
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Doesn't playing the guy who has shown across the minor leagues, with excellent, Votto-lite peripherals, that he can be the middle of the order RH bat that Gotham deserves count as putting the team in a position to succeed?

    Is settling for a guy who could be the main character in Casey at the Bat as the primary backup to a catcher who is going to be 33 this season, has missed time with injury in previous years, and could be entering his decline years putting the team in the best situation to win pennants?
    Four comments/ questions:

    1) You think Mesoraco is going to be Votto good? Wow. That's... definitely a comment that deserves some analysis.
    2) Prospects-- even those with excellent perephials-- fail. Often.
    3) With what injuries has Hanigan missed time/ is brittle? Hanigan's been remarkably healthy, IIRC, and done yoeman's work behind the plate.
    4) Hanigan is, IMO, underrated by you especially and the rest of baseball generally. He's a great defensive catcher who boosts his pitching staff's numbers and has done so for a fairly long stretch of time.

    Hanigan is the devil you know-- above average to well above average. A Gold Glove caliber defender with a good obp.

    Mesoraco is the devil you don't. He's struggled both offensively and defensively at the major league level, with pitchers unwilling to pitch to him. He owns an uppercut swing that's long and full of holes. He gets down on himself easily. Perhaps he rediscovers a swing that allowed him to hit a bunch of minor league home runs at the major league level. Perhaps he doesn't. Perhaps he finds a way to make himself tougher and more agreeable for his pitchers. Perhaps he finds a better glove.

    That's a lot of perhapses.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  5. Likes:

    remdog (03-10-2013)

  6. #108
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    The Reds are going to win the division by 15 games.
    I disagree with this assessment.

    They'll be in a dogfight, IMO, with the Cardinals all year.

    If they do win by 15 games, Mesoraco can catch 20 games in late August and September.

    Win/ Win
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  7. #109
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    6,056

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    The Reds are going to win the division by 15 games. Does anyone really believe that if the Reds swapped Hanigan and Mes' playing time around it would cost the team the division?

    Really?
    Not that I am not confident on the Reds ability to win this division....but 15 games? When the Cardinals always seem to find ways to bring up players to help plug holes, like on a whim, it seems?

  8. #110
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    297

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    You guys can say trade mes and hamilton all you want. Thats the good thing about these message boards. But trading either of them isnt going to happen

    And I dont even understand where the trade hamilton is coming in. This is his first year at triple A. We dont even know what hes going to do at that level yet. And players can get all the hype in the world in the minors. Im sure everyone here remembers brandon Larson

  9. #111
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,311

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    The Reds are going to win the division by 15 games. Does anyone really believe that if the Reds swapped Hanigan and Mes' playing time around it would cost the team the division?

    Really?
    Phew. See you guys in October.

  10. #112
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    6,056

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Then trade Mes and Hamilton.
    Say what? Beacuse the Reds are not just putting these guys to start ASAP....they should trade them? For years, on RZ.... I heard how much people ....a lot of people hated seeing Rich Aurilia or name your old vet who sucked elsewhere, play over kids when this team was going nowhere.....Now they are going somewhere, but let's play the kids, even when they are not showing they are ready. If some of these pitchers do not like the way Devin catches/handles them....should we trade these pitchers then or maybe wait until Devin gets a better hang of what he is doing? It's everyone else's fault, especially Dusty and the Reds FO...apparently...but Devin's. I think I can ay we can trust this FO...more than any other Reds FO since the late 60's early 70's...to know what they are doing here.

  11. Likes:

    remdog (03-10-2013)

  12. #113
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    171

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    You guys can say trade mes and hamilton all you want. Thats the good thing about these message boards. But trading either of them isnt going to happen

    And I dont even understand where the trade hamilton is coming in. This is his first year at triple A. We dont even know what hes going to do at that level yet. And players can get all the hype in the world in the minors. Im sure everyone here remembers brandon Larson
    The problem isn't that guys (or at least me) are saying that Mes is a lock to be a middle of the lineup option, but rather that we have no idea because he got no chance to show that last year. Apparently some people think 165 at bats spread out over the course of an entire season is "getting his chance" and "crapping the bed". We just don't know yet....But there is evidence that he may be our best option. I'm not trying to undervalue RH. I think he's a great great asset to have on this team. I just want DM to play more than two scattered days a week.

  13. #114
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,172

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    The Reds are going to win the division by 15 games. Does anyone really believe that if the Reds swapped Hanigan and Mes' playing time around it would cost the team the division?

    Really?
    If you want to make God laugh tell him about your plans

  14. #115
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    6,056

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysawarrior View Post
    The problem isn't that guys (or at least me) are saying that Mes is a lock to be a middle of the lineup option, but rather that we have no idea because he got no chance to show that last year. Apparently some people think 165 at bats spread out over the course of an entire season is "getting his chance" and "crapping the bed". We just don't know yet....But there is evidence that he may be our best option. I'm not trying to undervalue RH. I think he's a great great asset to have on this team. I just want DM to play more than two scattered days a week.

    If he hits better, and these pitchers feel comfortable pitching to him....then I would agree. Someone ask the pitchers than what their problem is with Devin and why they, Dusty and the FO seem hellbent on keeping this man down.

  15. #116
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    15,215

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Mes is an asset. If he isn't going to be an asset on the field for the Reds, scrap clearly has his doubts, than the Reds need to use him as an asset in bringing in someone else.

    He's still a prospect. There will be a gm out there that will give up something of vaule for him.

    The Reds are going to be good for awhile. If hanigan is the one the Reds want to be the catcher, so be it. Get something for Mes now before he is relegated to another 175 pa season.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  16. #117
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,311

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Doesn't playing the guy who has shown across the minor leagues, with excellent, Votto-lite peripherals, that he can be the middle of the order RH bat that Gotham deserves count as putting the team in a position to succeed?

    Is settling for a guy who could be the main character in Casey at the Bat as the primary backup to a catcher who is going to be 33 this season, has missed time with injury in previous years, and could be entering his decline years putting the team in the best situation to win pennants?
    I guarantee that Mes will get more time if he starts to become the middle of the order bat that Gotham deserves. But, until he starts to show more, give me the guy who will help them win now.

  17. #118
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,172

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    The reds are going to be good for awhile.... so trade the guy they plan on being part of that plan because hes currently a b/u to a 33 year old


    Teams that are "good" for awhile tend to not do rash things like that

    2005 Reds would not 2013 Reds

  18. Likes:

    mth123 (03-01-2013), remdog (03-10-2013)

  19. #119
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Four comments/ questions:

    1) You think Mesoraco is going to be Votto good? Wow. That's... definitely a comment that deserves some analysis.
    2) Prospects-- even those with excellent perephials-- fail. Often.
    3) With what injuries has Hanigan missed time/ is brittle? Hanigan's been remarkably healthy, IIRC, and done yoeman's work behind the plate.
    4) Hanigan is, IMO, underrated by you especially and the rest of baseball generally. He's a great defensive catcher who boosts his pitching staff's numbers and has done so for a fairly long stretch of time.
    1) I was referring to his K%, BB%, and ISOp, all of which, as Doug cited earlier, are very close to Votto's at the same level. I do not think that there is any world in which Mesoraco becomes Votto. But, then again, I don't think there is any world in which Hanigan offensively outproduces Mesoraco given equal playing time. That is why I feel that Mesoraco deserves a more extended shake than he has been given thus far. If I gave the impression that I feel that Mesoraco will be Votto-good, I apologize. I think that Mesoraco could be Brian McCann or Matt Weiters, which would be a wonderful addition to the team as currently constructed.

    2) I agree. But Mesoraco hasn't been given a chance to fail or succeed yet. He has been given a short opportunity to be a literal backup- not a time share or even a sort-of split time player. There hasn't been time for his BABIP to normalize, there hasn't been time for him to develop relationships with pitchers, there hasn't been time for him to learn the league, and there hasn't been time for a MLB-flavor scouting report to be developed for or against him.

    3) While Hanigan has been remarkably healthy (for some reason, his time on the DL in 2009 stood out to me, and I was convinced that he had been on the DL in 2011 as well, although I was mistaken), his season plate appearances at the MLB level are 293 in 2009 (with 19 in minors), 243 in 2010 (with 52 in the minors), 304 in 2011, and 371 in 2012. Even if he matches his 2012 PAs, there are ~300 PAs to be had. Giving those to Olivo as a true positional backup or to Mesoraco in a bastardized timeshare as in 2012 is a mistake, IMHO.

    4) I truly admire Hanigan, but the fact of the matter is that he isn't the building-block player who should stand in the way of a blue-chip prospect. If the team feels that he is and that I am wrong, then why keep the blue-chip prospect? Trade him (Mesoraco) for Carlos Gonzalez, trade him for Cliff Lee, trade him for a lifetime supply of baseballs, it doesn't matter. Expiring his humongous value as a blue chip catching prospect is a ridiculous mismanagement of resources and makes no sense in any world. If Hanigan is the future, then trade Mesoraco for something more valuable than a backup catcher. If Mesoraco is the future, then give him a real shake.

    It isn't a boolean [Hanigan] OR [Mesoraco] situation. I can love what Hanigan brings to the table while still feeling that Mesoraco deserves to play, and the Reds can figure out if Mesoraco is a real player without abandoning Hanigan (which I don't think anybody in this thread is asking for). Simply giving Mesoraco an opportunity to succeed is all that I am asking for. 184 PAs across 90% of the season with only a handful of back-to-back starts and no described matchup favorability is not giving a player an opportunity to succeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    The base you want to acquire is home.

  20. #120
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,520

    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    The reds are going to be good for awhile.... so trade the guy they plan on being part of that plan because hes currently a b/u to a 33 year old


    Teams that are "good" for awhile tend to not do rash things like that

    2005 Reds would not 2013 Reds
    But there hasn't been any demonstration that Mesoraco is part of the plan, aside from him having a locker in the Reds' locker room. He was played identically to how Paul Bako or any other backup catcher would be played.

    And wasn't it not a month or two ago where you were describing how Hanigan's lack of power would be a limiting factor on his role as a Red? Not to be accusatory or anything, but I don't think I understand your position on the current catching situation. Can you elaborate?
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    The base you want to acquire is home.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25