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Thread: Reds catching 2013 and after

  1. #181
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I don't disagree. But there is nothing wrong with letting a rookie catcher be the short side of a "platoon" until the situation becomes more clear.
    And that was what I was getting at.

    This situation is not as simple as "I thought the plan is to win as many games as you can". There are nuances involved.

    To a point you are right, but the plan at least for me, is to win as many games over the long haul, not just the ones being played right now.

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  3. #182
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    I guess my thing is that I view Mes as a top notch product. If that is the case there needs to be a plan to get him to be the regular catcher as soon as possible and have an exit strategy in place for Hanigan.

    I'm not saying trade Hanigan, but if Mes is ready to grab the reigns, give him a fair shot at being the main guy. And if he works out, figure out the best thing to do with Hanigan.

    I'm willing to listen to all opinions as this is tricky and no side is totally out of bounds here.

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  5. #183
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    How do you define if he's playing better than Hannigan? How long does he have to play better than Hannigan? How much better than Hannigan does he have to be?
    Better is better. It's pretty cut and dry to me. Better overall numbers over a significant sample. Being a good enough catcher that he's an asset to the pitchers.

    I'm not sure why belaboring the point is necessary. It's not hard to find out when one player has better numbers than another.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  6. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I guess my thing is that I view Mes as a top notch product. If that is the case there needs to be a plan to get him to be the regular catcher as soon as possible and have an exit strategy in place for Hanigan.

    I'm not saying trade Hanigan, but if Mes is ready to grab the reigns, give him a fair shot at being the main guy. And if he works out, figure out the best thing to do with Hanigan.

    I'm willing to listen to all opinions as this is tricky and no side is totally out of bounds here.
    I do not understand this at all. Why are we trying to devise a strategy to ditch a consistently quality player in favor of a player who (while having a lot of potential) is not only not a sure thing, but has not played well in the MLB time he's received?

    Scheme the exit strategy once Mesoraco warrants it.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  7. #185
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I do not understand this at all. Why are we trying to devise a strategy to ditch a consistently quality player in favor of a player who (while having a lot of potential) is not only not a sure thing, but has not played well in the MLB time he's received?

    Scheme the exit strategy once Mesoraco warrants it.
    If you think Mes will be an upgrade from Ryan it makes sense.

  8. #186
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Better is better. It's pretty cut and dry to me. Better overall numbers over a significant sample. Being a good enough catcher that he's an asset to the pitchers.

    I'm not sure why belaboring the point is necessary. It's not hard to find out when one player has better numbers than another.
    Won't sample size be an issue?

    9 games a month will make it a long time before we can figure out what we have in Mes.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Won't sample size be an issue?

    9 games a month will make it a long time before we can figure out what we have in Mes.
    Yeah, it'll take a while. Them's the breaks though.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  10. #188
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    That's my problem with the whole situation. If Mez gets 65 at bats by the end of May and has a few hits fall in, that means he's ready? It's an arbitrary way of deciding the fate of a player that's pretty important to the future of the franchise. Hanigan's not exactly getting younger.
    Aren't those "few hits" the reason why he should be playing more?

    Success may indeed be arbitrary; however, isn't it the best way to gauge playing time when one is looking for wins?

    Success in Mesoraco's case would hinge on not only his own success, but that of Hanigan and the starting pitchers both catchers handle.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  11. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    If you think Mes will be an upgrade from Ryan it makes sense.
    Why would we think that though? I don't particularly remember a prospect at any other position given such a big assumption to how well they are going to produce, in favor of an established quality player.

    I'm not sure why it is that it's shaken out that way for Mesoraco and Hanigan. Maybe if Hanigan was older and conceivably about to bottom out as a player, or about to get expensive/in a walk year, I'd get it.

    But neither is the case. And yet a lot of us just want to give him the reigns no questions asked and say tough luck to a player who's a quality hitter and probably a top 3 defender at the most important defensive position.!
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  12. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Aren't those "few hits" the reason why he should be playing more?

    Success may indeed be arbitrary; however, isn't it the best way to gauge playing time when one is looking for wins?

    Success in Mesoraco's case would hinge on not only his own success, but that of Hanigan and the starting pitchers both catchers handle.
    Yeah I mean if he's playing well, give him more time, whatever, not a big deal. Sit Hanigan a little more often, go Hanigan 3 times through the rotation one time, alternate to Mes 3 times the next go around in the rotation.

    But just naming Mes the starter outright at this point is borderline crazy IMO.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  13. #191
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Yeah I mean if he's playing well, give him more time, whatever, not a big deal. Sit Hanigan a little more often, go Hanigan 3 times through the rotation one time, alternate to Mes 3 times the next go around in the rotation.

    But just naming Mes the starter outright at this point is borderline crazy IMO.
    Hanigan starts opening day for me. Then I'd try to go 60/40 Mes as a start.

  14. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Hanigan starts opening day for me. Then I'd try to go 60/40 Mes as a start.
    Why though? What possible reason is there to do that? I'm not trying to develop Mesoraco at the expense of the entire rest of the team.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  15. #193
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Mesoraco isn't as good as Hanigan yet.

    And it's not really close.

    Mesoraco was below replacement level last season. Hanigan was very good.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  16. #194
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    So no one wants to go out on a limb and give us a straight answer on what Mes needs to do?

    I give you the following:

    After two months, Hannigan is playing to his career averages. Mes is OPSing 850 and is an average defender. What happens next?
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  17. #195
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    So no one wants to go out on a limb and give us a straight answer on what Mes needs to do?

    I give you the following:

    After two months, Hannigan is playing to his career averages. Mes is OPSing 850 and is an average defender. What happens next?
    Loser Leaves Town cage match?


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