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Thread: Reds catching 2013 and after

  1. #226
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    By that point, Mesoraco will have had around 500 to 600 ABs at the major league level.

    That'd give him (and the Reds) a good idea of what they have/ need, should they decide to deal Hanigan next season.

    IMO, Hanigan is much better than you're giving him credit for. His bat isn't a complete lost cause, and his glove is superior. Mesoraco would have to really mash, as he simply doesn't have the glove/ ability behind the plate Hanigan does.
    Honest question.... how bad would our pitchers be if they all had to throw to Mesoraco?

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  3. #227
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Here's the thing, what exactly does this team need to make it worth dealing Mes? If he's properly valued, than he's valued as a top 10 prospect. Teams usually don't deal prospects for prospects, so they probably won't get an arm for the next couple of years when the rotation guys start leaving town. If not that, you know what this team's biggest need would be if Mes was dealt? I'd say a decent catcher who can catch 40% or so of the team's innings while holding promise that he could produce in his 250 or so PAs and be the man in the near future when the team's 33 y/o starter requires sliding into a reduced role or leaves town completely. Anything else they'd get for him would have an even lesser role than playing 40% of the time behind the plate.

    Dealing Mes really makes no sense for this year or the future IMO.
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  4. #228
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    For Mes to hit 500 PAs for his career this season he'll need just about 300 PAs. To reach that, he'll need to rack up 47 percent of the PA's.

    That means he'll need to catch more than his two guys.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #229
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    I have read most of this thread and I definitely believe this issue warrants extensive discussion. One point that I did not see being made that I think is important, is that for most top prospects, if they aren't going to be the starter, than I do believe they should be getting PAs in AAA.

    Catcher is a different beast, though. Most starters get 60-75% of the playing time leaving 25-40% of the PAs for their backup. This is significantly higher than other positions. Therefore, Mes will get more of a chance to develop as a backup C, than he would as a backup SS or 1B.

    I believe that I would want Mes to start two times out of each rotation to both give him a chance to develop and to keep Hanigan fresh. I also believe that for at least the first few months, it makes sense to switch up who the catchers get to catch so that each catcher gets to catch each starter at least twice.

    I think a lot of posters here are selling Mes short if they think Olivo is a better backup C than Mes at this point. The development of Devin Mesoraco will be a big storyline for the 2013 Reds.

  6. #230
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    For Mes to hit 500 PAs for his career this season he'll need just about 300 PAs. To reach that, he'll need to rack up 47 percent of the PA's.

    That means he'll need to catch more than his two guys.
    How so?

    650 ABs typically for the number 8 slot in the lineup.

    If Mesoraco gets 40% of those ABs (260), he'll reach 500. (Actually, it'd be 497.) Add in a three PH appearances or DH slots, and he's there.

    That assumes complete health for both catchers-- a gamble, I know.
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Really couldn't disagree more, the objective is not to "find out what Mes can do." This isn't some stranger. The Reds have followed him and worked with him for years in the minors and last year in the majors. They are managers, coaches, scouts. I think they know the player pretty well.

    The objective, rather, is to develop the player into a major league starter. My proposal is designed to do that. Be patient, let Mes succeed at AAA after a tough 2012, then give him the full major league shot.
    Right, and maybe knowing the player as they do, they have decided he's a major league ready starter at catcher that happens to be stuck behind Hanigan. Maybe that call you referred to from the AAA coaching staff that he's too good for that level has already happened. What should they do if that's the case?
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  8. #232
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    How so?

    650 ABs typically for the number 8 slot in the lineup.

    If Mesoraco gets 40% of those ABs (260), he'll reach 500. (Actually, it'd be 497.) Add in a three PH appearances or DH slots, and he's there.

    That assumes complete health for both catchers-- a gamble, I know.
    I screwed up on the math somewhere:

    I had that he needed 285 PA's to reach 500 for his career. In reality its 263.
    Last years catchers assessed 623 total PA's.

    That's 42.2 percent.

    Math hurts my head sometimes
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #233
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    Right, and maybe knowing the player as they do, they have decided he's a major league ready starter at catcher that happens to be stuck behind Hanigan. Maybe that call you referred to from the AAA coaching staff that he's too good for that level has already happened. What should they do if that's the case?
    My view, then, would be to send him down for a briefer stay.

    AAA serves a developmental purpose -- but, it could also be used to jump start his bat. Let him play every day for 6 weeks, and hopefully get it going.

    I consider last year a pretty disastrous stretch for Mes. He didn't play that well, he didn't get a lot of chances. I don't want to see that happen again.

    So if the Reds feel he is really on the cusp, then I would tell him he's going down to catch every day for a brief time, and when he gets back he will get a big chance.

    And when he comes back up, i'd play him at least fifty percent of the time, if not more.

  10. #234
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Nice throwing by Mes in today's spring game against the Los Angeles Angels of Los Angeles, or whatever they are called.

    Mes now with a nice single.

    He's looking pretty confident today. Still don't want him on the bench most of the time, but Mes looks good out there.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-05-2013 at 04:02 PM.

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    bigredmechanism (03-06-2013)

  12. #235
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Nice throwing by Mes in today's spring game against the Los Angeles Angels of Los Angeles, or whatever they are called.

    Mes now with a nice single.

    He's looking pretty confident today. Still don't want him on the bench most of the time, but Mes looks good out there.
    They are replaying the game on MLB network right now. He caught 2 runners stealing in the first couple innings, including Mr Trout. Easy to forget how much of a cannon Mes has after not seeing him for 6 months.
    Award Winning Baseball Player

  13. #236
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Mark Sheldon - Mesoraco demonstrating defensive improvement

    During the game, Mesoraco answered the question himself. In the first inning, with Josh Hamilton batting, Mesoraco fired a pickoff throw to second base that nailed Howie Kendrick for the third out. In the third inning, Mesoraco caught Mike Trout attempting to steal second base, also for the third out.

    "He's getting better," Baker said before the game. "He's working, not only defensively. He's getting better throwing, he's getting better receiving, he's getting better hitting. When we started last year, there's a lot a catcher has to think about.

    "Sometimes, you get overwhelmed with all the things you're supposed to do as a catcher, especially as a young catcher. You just want to see progress, that's all."
    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin
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  14. #237
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Mesoraco caught Bailey his last outing and is catching Leake today. Looks as though that might be the routine at start of season as it was at end of last season.

  15. #238
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    Mesoraco caught Bailey his last outing and is catching Leake today. Looks as though that might be the routine at start of season as it was at end of last season.
    Then the Reds need to make sure that Bailey and Leake AREN'T back to back in the rotation. You simply can't sit him three or four days in a row (off days) all year long.

    This whole "you catch your guys" thing is so stupid it hurts. Let both guys catch everyone. Every week they alternate who they catch. It isn't difficult. Through the rotation once it goes H-M-H-M-H, the next time through, it goes M-H-M-H-M and so on. If you MUST stick to the 60/40 split, then make that happen. With 162 games, it is actually impossible to be 60/40, but you can be awfully close. Mix it up.

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    Raisor (03-22-2013)

  17. #239
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    This whole "you catch your guys" thing is so stupid it hurts. Let both guys catch everyone. Every week they alternate who they catch. It isn't difficult. Through the rotation once it goes H-M-H-M-H, the next time through, it goes M-H-M-H-M and so on. If you MUST stick to the 60/40 split, then make that happen. With 162 games, it is actually impossible to be 60/40, but you can be awfully close. Mix it up.
    How about those pitchers that prefer the comfort of pitching to one catcher over the other?

    Shouldn't that weigh pretty heavily in this discussion?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: Reds catching 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    This whole "you catch your guys" thing is so stupid it hurts. Let both guys catch everyone. Every week they alternate who they catch. It isn't difficult. Through the rotation once it goes H-M-H-M-H, the next time through, it goes M-H-M-H-M and so on. If you MUST stick to the 60/40 split, then make that happen. With 162 games, it is actually impossible to be 60/40, but you can be awfully close. Mix it up.
    I disagree completely on this one. It's the catcher that suggests the pitches to the pitcher. The ability to have that communication is vital to successful pitchers.

    By having the same catcher, they learn each other's little quirks like knowing when to block a curveball in the dirt. I think it helps continuity and creates a routine. Every pitcher I heard speak emphasizes the importance of a routine when starting. Changing the catcher could disrupt this and lead to mistakes like passed balls or pitch select disagreements.


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